Final Surge Podcast

In the Final Surge Podcast, we interview coaches, athletes authors, and endurance industry experts to help you train with a purpose.
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Dec 27, 2017

Welcome to episode 69 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome world record holder Camille Herron. In 2017 Camille won Comrades set two American Records and two World Records. Camille has had an interesting journey which has been riddled by injuries and we discuss how she has overcome those and what she has learned to make herself a stronger runner. We also talk about her secret weapon in an ultra race, beer. Camille was great to talk to and I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did recording it. We are now on Spotify so please remember to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Google Play or Spotify, wherever you consume it.  


In recent weeks Camille has set a 100-mile world record 12:42:39, a
100km USA track record 7:36:39 at Desert Solstice and then went on to run for
12-hours and set a 12hr All-Surface World Record 92.708 miles.
She is the new Ann Trason and arguably, she will be in for a shout as ultra-runner of the year.

How did you get your start in running?

  • Basketball player ran for first time in middle school
  • In high school focused on running
  • Tulsa University scholarship but a lot of injuries
  • Became hobby runner after that

What exactly did your running look like after Tulsa

  • Hobby run
  • Husband ran professionally 
  • Was running long as recreational about 70 miles a week
  • Husband started coaching

How do you go from always injured to running 70 miles a week?

  • Frank Shorter: Run for stress relief
  • Started running slower
  • Biomechanics and physic courses: Started feet strength/barefoot

Where was your minimalist running in relation to Born To Run?

  • 3-4 years before
  • Very minimalist shoes from Boulder Running Company

Moved to minimalist running and your husband is coaching you, where did you jump back into competitive running?

  • Longer distances seemed to be better
  • Focused on qualifying for Olympic Marathon Trials
  • 2007 Marathon debut
  • Ran 2:38 at Twin Cities and it took off

When did you make the jump into ultramarathons?

  • 2009 sponsored
  • Started doing back-to-back marathons
  • Grad school, how to enhance bone recovery

When you talk back-to-back marathons how often are you talking?

  • A few weeks apart
  • 2011 David Monti of NYC Marathon suggested ultra running
  • 2013 made debut
  • Underperformed in the first ultra

We see injury problems from growth spurts, which you had. You also studied bone recovery. What advice would you have now for those struggling?

  • Did too much high intensity
  • Focus on easier aerobic volume development 
  • Don't be afraid of mileage as much as intensity
  • Recover with easy days easy

When did you do the first ultra?

  • 2013
  • 2014 first Comrades but got sick and ended up in the emergency room

You had done marathons, you understand the wall. So what was the first ultra like, was it like you expected or different?

  • Was too cautious
  • Could have pushed more

What is your diet like?

  • Meet and potatoes, wholesome southern diet
  • Eat Taco Bell or Subway day before races 

What about fueling during a race?

  • Naturally good fat burner
  • Diet analyzed and was 50% carbs, 36% fat, 14% protein
  • Take in 60-90g carbs/hr
  • Take gel every 30 mins and sip on sports drinks as needed
  • Will have a beer or whatever body tells me to have

You have a beer during a race?

  • Helped settle stomach
  • If tired of eating gels will have a beer

We are at the end of 2017, can you walk us through what a year looks like for you as a competitive ultrarunner?

  • Have had major highs and lows
  • Started with some trail race in New Zeland
  • March in a race 10 weeks before Comrades tore MCL
  • Took a few weeks off and came back slowly walk/run
  • Won Comrades off injury
  • 3 weeks later Western States, fell and got a concussion
  • Leadville ran into issues with pelvic pain
  • Won Comrades to two DNF and being broken
  • Tunnell Hill 100 

Did at least 8 races this year, a marathoner may do 2-3 races a year. How do you recover so quickly?

  • Family heels quickly
  • Studied recovery in grad school
  • Use active recovery always walking twice a day after a race

I saw you earlier this month at Desert Solstice. We went to see Zach Bitter, but he was out. We saw what you were going after. After 11.5 hours of running on the track in a 1/4mile circle, you still seemed to be smiling so much.

  • In love with running
  • Love what you are doing

Broke Ann Trasons 12-hour record which has stood since 1991?

  • That is why I was smiling, felt great

What was the hardest part of running for 12-hours on a track?

  • Concentration, cannot zone out like on trails
  • Hard to get into the zone

How hard is it to get going again after you have to stop to use a restroom or something?

  • It was hard because it was warm
  • Took 18-minute break, had to start off walking before really got going again pushing

You had two World Records this year, now what for an encore in 2018?

  • Been fun to break the records
  • Want to try for the 24-hour record
  • Need to redeem self on trails
  • Goal to win Western States and Comrades in same year

You are very active online, where can people find you?

Twitter RunCamille
Instagram RunCamille
Facebook RunCamille

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Your favorite endurance/running book? - Lore of running
Current trainers you are wearing? - Nike Zoom Fly
Favorite race? - Comrades
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Cheeseburger and Fries with Beer
Your favorite workout - Long runs with heart rate progression


Dec 20, 2017

Welcome to episode 68 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome competitive runner and coach Korey Konga of Upper Left Distance Training. Korey came to running as a way to change his health. Korey has a successful ultramarathon resume and has transitioned into coaching. If you enjoy this episode please remember to share the love and share it with a friend.

  • How did you get your start in running?
    • Change of lifestyle
  • Started running ultras and picked up sponsors
    • Moved into coaching
  • What was it that triggered you to change your lifestyle and get into running?
    • Jogged a lot on job
    • Friend suggested run a half marathon
    • Running replaced drinking
  • What was the process like developing as runner and becoming an ultra runner?
    • Read blogs and got inspired
    • 6 months after his half marathon he qualified for Boston
    • 3 months later did his first ultra
    • Training errors lead to injuries
  • You mentioned you got hurt a lot the first year. As a coach, what advice do you give newer runners who may run into those injuries problems?
    • Easier said than done, but listen to body
  • What signs are you looking for when working with your athletes to recognize they may be pushing the envelope too far?
    • Watch Final Surge feedback ratings
  • When did you make the transition into coaching?
    • Been coaching for a while, but two years ago opened the business
  • What does your typical athlete you are coaching look like?
    • 1/2 marathon to 100-mile ultra races
  • What was the biggest difference with training between a 1/2 marathon runner and an ultra running?
    • Time commitment and volume
    • As move to more specific stages changes, ultra do a lot of long hill repeats
  • You mentioned the base season may be similar between the 1/2 and ultra, are you talking types of workouts or volume?
    • Volume can be different, but workouts similar
    • All do short hill sprints, strides
  • You mentioned a runner in a pancake flat area, if I had a restriction on hills available to me, how would you recommend someone trains to get in some hill type work?
    • Treadmill
    • Really short hills for sprints
    • Stadium stairs for strength
    • Parking Garage can work
  • When you are building volume for long runs for ultra runners how often do you utilize back to back long runs?
    • Depends on the individual, but not as much as some people
    • Big run on mountains on Saturday, then come back with a faster flat run
  • Do you focus on feel, pace per mile, heart rate, power?
    • Mostly feel
    • Some CV work will use pace per mile
  • What advice do you have to runners looking to make that change about becoming fat burners and if that is important in ultra running?
    • With volume and easy long runs, it just happens
    • Will use depletion runs occasionally
  • For someone making that jump from 1/2 marathon to longer races is fueling the biggest obstacle you face?
    • Mental game
  • Many new runners are probably not thinking about getting a coach. What type of advise do you have to runners who are considering getting a coach, when is the time right?
    • Any time is a good time to have a coach
    • Can avoid a lot of problems and progress quicker
    • Not for everyone
  • Are the athletes you work with mostly online or in person?
    • Almost all virtual coaching
  • Walk me through the process of what it may look like if I reached out to you and what do those conversations look like?
    • Why are you reaching out
    • History, family life, work/life balance
    • Questionnaire
    • Final Surge Invite
  • Do you build in pre/post strength routines or just running plans?
    • Different options
  • We are now entering into winter months, what advice do you have for ultra runners who are going to be spending hours on the trails for training in the winter?
    • No such thing as bad weather, just soft people
  • One of your recent posts recounted an encounter with bears, cougars and more. How do you stay safe?
    • Ton of bear and mountain lions in Oregon and never been an attack, but be aware of surroundings
    • Make sure someone knows where you are going, what loop you are doing
  • You have been very active with your updates and blogging on the site, what information are you trying to provide?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Science or Running by Steve Magness
Current trainers you are wearing? - Adidas Adios
Favorite race? - Orchas Island 50k
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Pizza
Your favorite workout -  Gnarley hill repeats


Korey Konga on Twitter

Korey Konga on Instagram


Dec 14, 2017

Welcome to episode 67 if the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome back Jay Johnson which is the other half of the podcast we did last week. In this episode, Jay talks about marathon training. We talk about his book Simple Marathon Training, which he points out is not to be confused with easy marathon training. Jay focuses on helping busy people who want to train for a marathon put a plan together. We discuss some of the concepts in his book in this episode.

Listen to the podcast on iTunes or listen to it on Stitcher if you have an Android device.

Stream it right here:

Your book is called Simple Marathon Training: The Right Training For Busy Adults With Hectic Lives. I think most of us think we have busy lives, so does this mean this book is for everyone who wants to run a marathon?

Jay also discusses who the book does not fit.

If someone is is looking to run their first marathon and wants to use your book as a resource to help them get through the process, where do you recommend they come in at? What should their minimum base be?

How much does your book stress strength and mobility work?

You do private online coaching, when someone who is a professional with a family comes to you and says I want to run a marathon, what are the first things you ask them to make sure they are really committed?

You mentioned using fat as a fuel source. When we had Scott Simmons of American Distance Project on and Ben Rosario of NAZ Elite, they both mentioned doing depleted runs or runs to trigger fat for fueling, is this something you focus on with your training?

Simple Marathon Training
Twitter @CoachJayJohnson
Instagram @CoachJayJohnson
Boulder Running Clinic

Dec 6, 2017

Welcome to episode 66 of the final surge podcast where we welcome back Coach Jay Johnson. Jay was the very first guest back in episode 1. In this interview we covered two very distinct topics, we talked about his site High School Running Coach and his upcoming clinic which has a fantastic lineup, and we also talked about his Simple Marathon Training Book and marathon training and fueling. We decided to break it up into two episodes as they were distinctly different. So in this episode, we will be talking about his high school training clinic which Final Surge will be a sponsor. If you have any interest in learning from the best coaches in the country, you will want to be there, and it is very affordable.

The Lineup:

You have John O'Malley - Sandburg (IL)  his boy Dylan Jacobs lead much of the race and is now on his way to the Footlocker National Race.

Dan Iverson Naperville North (IL) - Girls coach who’s girl’s team created one of the most dramatic moments when they came from way back to come within 5 points of knocking of Fayetteville Manilas.

Doug Soles of Great Oaks who’s boys came in 6th and girls came in 8th.

Jonathan Dalby - Mountain Vista whos boys came in 3rd and girls in 6th.

Then Joan Hunter who was our guest here in episode 64 who lead Loudoun Valley’s boy's team not only to a perfect score at their state meet but also a national championship. Can you tell us a little about how this came together?

What topics will they be covering?

5 of the best coaches in the country, it is amazing that these top coaches are sharing and not trying to keep anything a secret.

Jay also talks about why coaches should stick around after the clinic is over on Saturday night and maybe even for Sunday morning.

Twitter @CoachJayJohnson
Instagram @CoachJayJohnson 
Boulder Running Clinic

Nov 29, 2017

Welcome to episode 65 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we talk to Jason Moore. Jason is a coach and the creator of EliteHRV, one of the most advanced HRV apps on the market. EliteHRV now integrates directly into Final Surge. We talk to Jason about what HRV is and how athletes and coaches should be using it to help with their training. 


How did you get started in endurance athletic and how that lead to what you are doing with Heart Rate Variability (HRV) and coaching?

What is HRV?

Is the real value of HRV for an endurance athlete looking at the data to determine how well they are recovered?

How does HRV vary from morning resting heart rate?

If we want to track HRV what equipment do we need to get started?

You mentioned the Polar chest straps, will any ANT+ chest strap work or does it need to be newer?

Your CorSense monitor has a Kickstarter campaign? And where can they find one of them right now?

Your app is EliteHRV. What makes your app different than other HRV apps on the market?

How do you take that morning reading? Do you need a stabilization period or do you take it right away or what is your recommended process?

When someone looks at Final Surge and see’s their numbers, what should they be looking for?

What are we talking about when you are looking at the number going down, what is the variation you want to monitor?

Inside your app everything is color-coded, can you discuss the colors you use and what they are telling you?

What are some non-training factors that could play a role in HRV that we should be aware of?
Follow on Twitter @JasonMooreMe



Nov 15, 2017

Welcome to Episode 64 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome Joan Hunter. Everyone who knows the unpredictability of a high school cross country race. So when a team goes 1-5 for a perfect score it is a pretty special day. When it happens at the State Championship meet it is even more so. When you get the top runners from around the state it is hard to have 1-5 all from the same school. That is exactly what Joan’s team Loudoun Valley did this past weekend in Virginia. We talk to Joan about her training philosophy, her expectations for the season and what she expects at Nike Regionals. If you want to hear more from Joan, she will be speaking at the Boulder Running Clinics coaches conference put on by Jay Johnson.

Can you give us your background on your running, how you got started with running and how that ended up with your current coaching position?

If you were a 2x State Champion but never ran until you were a Junior in high school, that means you had a lot of natural talent. Did you not realize your ability when you were younger?

What did your post-collegiate running career look like?

I believe you used Tom Tinman Schwartz as a personal coach for a while?

What have you learned from Tom, what training philosophies have you taken away from what he has done in the past that you use in your coaching?

Your team just went 1-2-3-4-5 for a perfect score of 15 at the Virginia State meet on the boys' side, how does that feel?

Going into state what was the game plan, did each runner have their own race play or did you have a team plan for them?

How did the race develop, did they go straight to the front and lead or did they close later?

A few years ago you had a good team that was dominated by your son, sub-4 miler Drew Hunter. How does this team differ now that you have so much more depth?

How much did having Drew as part of the program help grown the program?

Coming into this season your boys were talked about as possible NXN title contenders. Did the team set any goals coming into the season or did you talk to them about expectations at all?

Last year your boys went to Nike Regionals and came in third and just missed an automatic bid to Nationals. This year you are currently ranked as the #1 team in the country, I know you can never take for granted you will win a Nike Regional race, but how confident is your team going into the qualifier?

How do you keep your team ready in this two-week block leading up to Nike?

What does your week this week look like?

During the season do you use training blocks like a 3-4 week period or do you look at the season as a whole?

You came in 3rd at Nike Regional last year, what did you learn, how has your training changed leading into this year?

What is the breakdown of your team between seniors, juniors, sophomores?

You talk about how you progress your runners, how does the training differ between the top sophomores vs what a senior may do?

How have you been using Final Surge in your planning this year?

You are going to be speaking at Jay Johnson’s Boulder Running Clinics this winter in January, do you know what your topic will be?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite endurance/running book? - Healthy Intelligent Training- Keith Livingstone
Current trainers you are wearing? - Adidas
Favorite race? - 800
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Smoothie
Your favorite workout - 200 repeats


Coaching Clinic with Joan Hunter put on by Jay Johnson

Tinman on Final Surge 

Drew Hunter on Final Surge

Joan Hunter on Twitter

Nov 8, 2017

Welcome to episode 63 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome back Ben Rosario the head coach of Northern Arizona Elite. Ben just had four guys run 2:13 or under and had two of his female runners crack the top 10 at the NYC Marathon. We talk about this fall and how the training went and then we spend the majority of the podcast talking about marathon specific training and his training plans that he has available on Final Surge. If you have interest in the marathon you are going to love this episode.

Ben, we had you in episode 4, and people can hear your background there and we had you on again in episode 44 talking about high school summer running training. Today I want to focus on some marathon talk, sound good?

Your crew at NAZ Elite has had quite a fall on the marathon course. Let me run down a few of these.

I believe it was in Chicago you kicked off the season where you had Aaron Braun run a 2:13

Then in Frankfurt, you had Scott Fauble make his marathon debut, Matt Llano come back from a long injury and run a strong race and then Scott Smith set a 2 1/2 minute personal best in the Marathon. So let’s start there with the guys. Four men 2:13 or under, that is quite some depth at the marathon. Including a great debut by Fauble. How happy were you with the results?

Was there a reason for Frankfurt?

On the women’s side, you had both Kellyn and Steph run in NYC. And they both had top 10 finishes. Did they both decide to do NYC so they could train together?

For a marathon to go well there is a lot that needs to go right. Not only on race day but also in training. So what went well that allowed you have such great finishes?

You have this long list of elite athletes, but you also develop plans for non-elite runners. One example is you worked recently with Matt Fitzgerald and helped him run a PR 10 years after his best. Want to talk about that?

We cannot talk about NYC without at least mentioning what Shalane Flanagan did becoming the first American women to win in 40 years. What does this mean for American running?

You have proven you can certainly coach marathon runners, so let’s talk about some marathon training.

On Final Surge at you have some training plans that are available for purchase including 5 marathon plans. The 5 marathon plans are a beginner, intermediate, advanced, elite and the Eric “Big Dog” Fernandez Awesome Marathon Plan, can you tell us what the difference is between these?

How does someone know which they should get?

Let’s talk about little bit about that beginner plan. The plan starts at 25 miles a week and builds up to 48-50 miles. And It looks like one long run up to 20 miles.
The first couple of weeks is all easy runs with a long run one day a week. A newer runner who is running their first marathon may not know what their paces should be, how would you tell them to find their easy run and long run paces?

In week three you start adding workouts with a fartlek. Some people say you should wait longer into a buildup why are you adding in a fartlek here?

After you start workouts, so you are getting to the end of your first month, what should a beginner marathoner’s week look like for training, how many days should they be running and how many should be workouts or long runs?

Later on in the plan, you introduce in the medium-long run. How does this compare to the long run?

What about races, how often do you recommend shorter races for someone training for a marathon?

One of the workouts is a workout that many, who have trained for shorter races, know well, but you are using it in the marathon and that is a 12x400. What is the purpose of this workout for a marathon runner?

As I mentioned earlier you hit high of about 50 miles, the week before the marathon you run 41 miles. Talk about the taper and what athletes do wrong with the taper?

The marathon is a completely different beast than the shorter races when it comes to fueling. And within that I would assume there is a big difference between someone who is running a marathon in 2.5 hours vs someone who is running a marathon in 4.5 hours is that true?

What about workouts, what workouts are you doing to allow them to handle the wall better are you doing carb depleted workouts?

What is the difference in race-specific workouts for beginner plan vs a more advanced plan?

In your log runs you seem to spice them up quite a bit with surges and adding in workouts into them?

NAZ Training Logs and Training Plans
Ben Rosario on Twitter
Northern Arizona Elite on Twitter
Northern Arizona Elite Website

Episode 4 with Ben Rosario




Nov 1, 2017

Welcome to Episode 62 of the Final Surge Podcast.  Today we get the honor of talking to Bart Yasso. Many of you know Bart as the longtime writer at Runner's World. Bart has been at Runners World for over 30 years and has become known as the Mayor of running. Bart has a new book called “Race Everything.” In Bart's new book he gives his thoughts on the changes in running, he talks about every race distance from 5k up to ultra’s and triathlons, he talks about his favorite workouts for each distance and provides training plans. We really enjoyed this conversation with Bart and hope you do too.

You have been around a long time, and many know your story, but for those who have not heard, can you give us a few minutes of how you got your start in running and how it lead up to where you are today.

What are some of the things that have changed for the better in the decades you have been involved in running?

I am sure you remember those early days with the fancy Timex Ironman and Casio watches we used to wear. Do you like technology advances like the GPS watch, heart rate monitors and power meters?

We have all heard of the selfie, but now we have the “Bartie”, this is when you take a selfie at events with a group of runners, how did this first start?

You do an amazing job connecting with everyday runners and I am sure that over the years that helped the Runners World brand. There are some professional runners that connect well too, but I would say most do not. Do you think the sport could benefit from the elite athletes spending a little more time trying to connect on social media and at events with the everyday runner?

Your new book is called “Race Everything.” When I got it I was not sure what to expect, but I really enjoyed the format which we will get into. So what brought about the book?

In the book, you write about some of your favorite races at different distances, and I think you have raced more than 1000 races?

So with that many races under your belt, you are more than qualified to answer a few questions on races. What makes a great race?

If a new runner is looking for their first race is it better for them to pick a large race like the Austin 10k or Carlsbad 5000, or is it better for them to get into a small local race that may only have 150 runners in it?

In the book, you give some good training advice in general and for each race distance. The 5k has become the most popular race distance to run. What makes the Carlsbad 5000 your favorite 5k race?

Another thing you talk about is racing series. There are many summer series and such where they race often. What advice do you have for someone who trying to decide how often to race?

It seems to me one of the fastest growing race distances in popularity is the half marathon. If someone is jumping up into a 1/2 from a 5k or 10k, what race day advice do you have for them that they should be considering?

And for the marathon, a key workout for you, and for thousands of runners over the year has been the Yasso 800s, which I believe Amby Burfoot coined the term for in your honor correct?

With the Yasso 800's you do them at marathon time, that is not the same thing as marathon pace if you are expecting a 2:50 marathon you are doing the 800’s in 2:50?

When should athletes do them in their training cycle and how often?

One of the things you talk about is building mileage, there is a good rule of thumb that most people use that says no more than 10% increase, while other's point to the fact that there is zero scientific evidence that supports that, so what is your suggestions on mileage buildup for someone who is looking to run a longer marathon or ultra?

So with this book, you have announced the end of your Runner’s World career. What will the future hold, can we still expect to see the Mayor in the future?

Final Surge Round: 5 questions in under a minute
Your favorite endurance/running book? - Anything by Amby Burfoot
Current trainers you are wearing? - Hoka OneOne and Altra
Favorite race? - 50miles
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Pizza
Your favorite workout - 5x1mile

Bart Yasso Website
Bart Yasso on Instagram
Bart Yasso on Twitter
Race Everything
Final Surge on Twitter
Final Surge on Facebook
Podcast Episode 3 with Amby Burfoot


Oct 25, 2017

We were supposed to have Runners World’s Bart Yasso on the podcast this week, but he had some technical difficulties so we had to reschedule his interview. This week we bring you one of our earliest and most popular episodes where we talked to Tom Tinman Schwartz for an hour about training. This is probably the most detailed training episode we have done to date. 

Oct 18, 2017

In episode 61 of the Final Surge podcast, we welcome coach Jim Vance who literally wrote the book on power meters of runners with his book Run With Power. Power meters have been around for a while with cyclists, but for runners, they are fairly new. Final Surge recently started importing Stryd’s power numbers from Strava and Garmin. We talk to Jim about what some of those numbers mean and how he used power training to coach Ben Kanute to his recent runner-up at the 70.3 Worlds. I just recently started playing with a Stryd power meter so I learned a lot as I did this podcast. This is a topic we will continue to cover as we become more familiar with it and as the technology continues to advance. If you are listening to this podcast when it first comes out you head over to or to our @FinalSurge Twitter account and register for a chance to win a free Stryd running power meter.

Listen to the podcast on iTunes or listen to it on Stitcher if you have an Android device.

Stream it right here:


You coach some great Triathlon athletes including Olympian Ben Kanute, how did you first get started in endurance athletics and how did that lead to coaching today?

Let’s start here, most endurance athletes have heard about power meters for the bike, but what is the power meter for running?

How can a power meter help a runner? If someone gets a new power meter, what is the first thing a runner should do?

What is your power number that you get, what does it mean?

Once I have a dataset of 4-6 weeks of runs, what numbers should I be looking at and trying to change and improve?

How will power numbers differ for different workouts like a long run vs a tempo run?

As a coach, I am trying to understand this better. If we are doing a 7x1k workout at tempo, how do I use a power number?

Can you talk about these zones and how you use them to write workouts?

What is the biggest difference in power numbers you are going to see in newer runners vs more experienced runners?

What would be a significant change in these numbers, what are you looking for in numbers?

Facebook question: So, page 205 (Power book by Vance) says the analysis should explore the following key metrics in the post-race analysis: NP, IF, VI, TSS, EI, CTL the day before race day, TSB on race day, w/kg during the race, power zone distributions, point in the race where power and/or pace dropped off. This appears to be the story that emerges which should guide your next training cycle. Is there a simplified way to understand that story? I realize I should look at the numbers and decide a weak area...but that's a lot of numbers! Can you guide our eye for making decisions about the next step in training?

You recently released some plans on Final Surge for running with power, can you tell us what is in those plans?

You mentioned Ben Kanute ran a 340 for power in a 70.3 race, when we are looking at the power number in Final Surge should we be aiming for a certain number.

Run With Power
Vance on Twitter
Vance Training Plans

Oct 11, 2017

If you are following us on Twitter @FinalSurge or on Facebook you have probably seen the project with Matt Fitzgerald we have been helping to promote called The Running Bum. Matt sees what it is like when a decent age group runner in his mid-40s becomes a full-time runner and joins Ben Rosario’s Northern Arizona Elite Team as a member.  We discuss with both Matt and Ben what the experience was like and what Matt learned that he can use in his coaching. Thanks for following the Running Bum blog online and enjoy this episode we did with Matt and Ben. 

What brought on this idea to go run and train with a professional group?

Why NAZ Elite and Ben Rosario, is there a reason you reached out to them specifically?

Ben, what were your thoughts when he reached out to you?

When did the training start for the Running Bum project?

Where were you in your marathon fitness in November when you reached out to Ben about the project?

What was your marathon PR before this project?

Ben, what did you think when he approached you saying he wanted to run a PR 9-years later?

Was there a moment after you arrived in Flagstaff that you thought this may be different than I thought it would be?

You faced some setbacks with injuries, a groin issue, an Achilles issue. I know you say you have a long history of injuries. Training with pros, this could have gone anyway on the injury front. Can you talk about the setbacks and what you learned from them?

Ben, was there a point where you got concerned or did these health issues not surprise you?

How long did it take to get you adapted to the altitude in Flagstaff?

Besides training at altitude, what do you think changed the most about your training when you started training with professionals?

Ben, when you have a team, you have a team chemistry. When you add in a new athlete it can change the atmosphere and chemistry of the team. How did it go adding Matt in?

Reading the stories on the blog, you talk about the conversations with the other athletes on the runs. This was one of the more enjoyable parts. What was it like running on a team when you were not used to it?

Was there anything about the structure of the week or the workouts that surprised you?

Ben, what would a 9-day cycle look like a month out from the race?

Was there anyone workout that you saw that stood out as it looked hard and had you worried?

What did you learn from this experience that you can use in your coaching going forward? 

I was looking at your splits per mile on your Final Surge Log, you started out with a 6:02 per mile pace. Every mile after that was right around there within about ten seconds. Your last couple of miles show a 6:02, 6:07, 6:03 pace. You don't seem to have hit the wall and were pretty consistent, how did this vary from past marathons you have done?

Ben, we have a lot of recreational runners trying to get better. If you had someone at home who had a full-time job, kids at home and were busy, what advice would you give them to running a successful marathon where they don't hit the wall?

What was it like being in the same coral as the elite runners at a world major marathon?

Was there any point in the race you had any concerns?

Ben, was there a point you were concerned it would not go as well as it did?

Whats next, are you ready to go after a mile PR?


Matt Fitzgerald Website 
The Running Bum blog 
Final Surge entry for Matt’s actual Chicago Run 
Northern Arizona Elite 
Matt on Twitter
Ben on Twitter 
Final Surge on Twitter
Final Surge Facebook page
Matt’s Final Surge Episode 29 recording 

Sep 27, 2017

Make sure you check out the Running Summit at


Follow us on Twitter @FinalSurge

Sep 20, 2017

Welcome to Episode 59 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome legendary coach Dennis Barker. Dennis was the long-time coach of Team USA Minnesota where his athletes achieved 75 top 3 finishes in US Championships and 29 different athletes made world championships teams. We talk about some fundamentals of training and his new book The River Road.


How did you get your start in running?

You founded Team USA Minnesota in 2001, at that time there was Team Hanson, Mammoth, maybe Oregon Project around that time, how has that team aspect lead to a resurgence in American distance success?

We were solid in the 70’s and 80’s, and we have had this resurgence, what happened in the 90’s where the US fell off the map so badly?

USATF teaches a strict periodization where coaches such as Salazar do more year-round training, how have you seen that change?

You mentioned you ran a lot of local races. If you look at local 5k/10k runners, how should they structure their year of training?

How does a coach who has coached 29 World qualifiers move to high school coaching?

How is training different besides just the volume?

Your new book The River Road is a novel, the running community had Once A Runner, was your goal to write the next great running novel?

As you wrote this you got the chance to think about the last 30-40 years of running. What has changed the most over that time?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Coe/Martin Training
Current trainers you are wearing? - Asics
Favorite race? - Carrie Tolleson 1500 Final 2004 Olympic Trials
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Octoberfest Beer
Your favorite workout - 8x1200, 24x100m hills

River Road Book

Dennis on Twitter

Sep 13, 2017

Welcome to episode 58 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome Jens Jakob Andersen. Jens founded, a website with the goal to help you find your next pair of running shoes and to offer you a deal on them. In this episode, we talk about the growth of RunRepeat, how free shoes could bias results of these reviews and what are some of the trends he is seeing in shoes. Please remember to leave us a review on iTunes. Your review will help us grow our podcast. Next week we have one of the legends of coaching who will be joining us to talk training.  

How did you get your start in running?

How did your passion for running lead you to create RunRepeat?

When did RunRepeat start?

Can you explain to our listeners the goal of RunRepeat?

Each shoe has a number score associated with it, how does the rating system work?

Reviews are from experts on other sites and users who review the shoes on your site?

Who are these expert reviewers that work for you?

If reviewers are getting free shoes, can it cause a bias in the reviews?

If a new shoe was provided for free, will they look at the reviews and treat you differently?

How many miles do they run in a pair of shoes before they review?

What are some of the current trends you see in running shoes that seem to be having a good impact?

What about the Nike 2 hour shoe, what do you think of that shoe project?

All this money goes into marketing to say their shoe is the best. So how does someone find out what is the best shoe for them?

When I was younger I run almost solely in the Asics GT 2020 line and its successors, in the last decade though I almost never buy the same shoe two times in a row. Do you find people tend to buy the same shoe each time or do they tend to jump around between brands and models?

If I am always buying something new, I need to go into a store to try them on. If someone is buying online would you recommend they stick to the same shoe because they cannot try them on?

When do you know its time for new shoes?

Do you find the shoes that rate the highest are the most popular shoes that companies market the most or do you find no relationship between ratings and popularity?

We have had some new companies emerge over the last few years such as the Sketchers Performance line and Under Armor, what do you see as up and coming running shoe lines?

They recently signed King Cheserek to a deal which is a huge name. I had a pair of GoRuns about two years ago and if I am being honest, they were probably the most comfortable running shoes I ever owned, but they broke down really quickly. What are you seeing from them and the ratings?

I noticed one of your studies showed that the higher the priced shoe, the lower the ratings were, is that because people have unreasonable expectations when they spend more or why do you think that is?

You have a study which was ironically posted on your website on July 4th that said American runners are getting slower. But when we look at the Olympic A standard qualifications like the 5k, they the standard was faster in 2016 than it was in 2012, and we had more people who hit the faster A standard. So the elites are not getting slower, so tell us about this report?

Is it because more people who would have never considered doing a marathon before are now doing it for charity?

What other interesting studies do you have coming out?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Shoe Dog
Current trainers you are wearing? - Declined
Favorite race? - Norway 1k vertical climb
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Chocolate
Your favorite workout - 10x400 with 1 minute rest + 3 min rest then 10x200 with 1 minute.

Email Jens
RunRepeat Website

Sep 6, 2017

In Episode 57 we welcome Carrie Lane, Sports Performance Coach at Authentic Performance Center, USTFCCA Strength Training Certification Instructor. Former track and field coach at University of Nebraska and University of Virginia.


How did you get your start in endurance athletics when you were younger?

You are known for your strength training, but you ran collegiately as a distance runner, can you tell us how you got made that transition?

A lot of young athletes, especially distance runners, are becoming more specialized. How important is building an endurance athlete even more so than just a distance runner to remain durable and for consistency?

You mention plyometrics, when do you move athletes from plyos to getting under the bar and lifting?

When you read about coaches like Percy Cuerety, and runners like Sebastian Coe we hear a lot about strength training that is not running specific. So where do we start in build dynamic runners?

How often would you do the skipping and dynamic warm ups?

How would the warm up differ before a recovery day vs a workout day?

Over a course of a week, what type of structure should all these exercises have?

Carrie discusses using a rope for hurdle mobility drills.

When you finally get into a weight room, how often should an athlete be in the weight room?

On those weight room days would you recommend getting them in on a workout or easy day?

Should the weight room days be done in a different part of the day like run in the AM and weights later in the day?

We think of strength work for a sprinter or thrower, but why is it important to work on strength for endurance athletes?

What about the differences between male and female, what areas are different that they need to work on?

We recently started doing a band routine a day post run. How much band work do you typically incorporate?

If you have some dynamic warm-ups leg swings before you run, then you have core work almost daily. Work in some band work. You have some plyo work and you are getting into the weight rooms a few times a week, is there a point for a distance runner where the returns are just not worth the extra time you are doing?

You have a program you have made available for distance runners, can you tell us about that and what is included.

Strength Program 

Carrie on Twitter
Carrie on Instagram 

Aug 23, 2017

Welcome to Episode 56 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome Jonathan Beverly an author at Runner’s World and is a former Editor at Running Times. Jonathan has recently released the book Your Best Stride. We dig into what your best stride is and how you get there. We have been getting a lot of great feedback over our iOS App and the updated Android App is being worked on as we speak. Make sure you download the app and review it in the App iStore. Also follow us on Twitter and Facebook @FinalSurge.

How did you get your start with running?

How did you transfer from a high school runner to the editor of Running Times?

You have a new book called Your Best Stride. What made you decide to write this book?

You have been running since 1980 so you have been around, is there anything you learned while writing this book that really surprised you?

Let’s start digging in with upper body and the role it plays. I have a sophomore girl who just joined our team who is a first-time runner. Day one she held her arms way up and pretty much in front of her, can you talk about the role the arm swing plays in our stride?

You stress all things starting at the hip, can you talk about how important the hip is?

How do we get our hip flexors extended or loosened?

How do you make sure you glute bridges are right so you make sure you feel it in your glutes, not your hamstrings?

Your Best stride, how does that differ from the best form for all?

One thing that is discussed all the time when we are talking about stride is foot strike. How important is foot strike?

How can someone with a large overstrike work on their mechanics to fix this?

Can you talk about what we are doing for the 22.5 hours a day we are not exercising and how it effects our running?

What do you recommend about running shoes and switching them up? If you find a shoe that seems to work should you buy a bunch and stick with it or should you switch them up?

When you are going to the running store and they look at you and say you over pronate, what would you recommend?

We all want our best stride, what cues can we use to check ourselves while we are running?

What are some other things you can briefly tease our listeners with that are included in your book?

What are you working on now, any other books you have coming?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite endurance/running book? - Road Racing for Serious Runners
Current trainers you are wearing? - Topo Fli-lyght 2
Favorite race? - 10 miles
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Peanut butter and honey sandwich
Your favorite workout - Tempo run


Jonathan on Twitter 

Your Best Stride

Aug 16, 2017

Welcome to episode 55 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we do something a little different. This week we talk to a variety of professional coaches who coach Olympic athletes, high school coaches who are among the most successful in the country, professional athletes and coaches who coach mostly online and we talk to them about training logs. We ask them who should be using a training log, what should be included in the log and their experiences with training logs. Now onto the show.

This week’s guests

Drew Wartenburg
Norcal website
Norcal on Instagram
Norcal on Twitter 
Drew on Twitter 

Neely Spence Gracey
Neely Website 
Neely on Instagram 
Neely on Twitter 

Mario Fraioli
Mario Website 
Morning Shakeout 
Mario on Twitter 

Joan Hunter
Joan on Twitter

Matt Fitzgerald
Running Bum Blog
Matt on Twitter 

Sean McCaffery
CBA on Twitter 

Kyle Kranz
Kyle on Twitter 
Kyle Website 

Aug 9, 2017

Welcome to episode 54 of the Final Surge podcast where today we talk to triathlete turned coach Marcelo Holcberg. We discuss with Marcelo who his biggest influences are, how busy professionals can train for triathlons and how he works with periodization. Remember to follow us on Twitter @FinalSurge and don't forget to subscribe and rate us on iTunes.

How did you get your start in endurance athletics?

What was the hardest part of the transition from running to triathlons?

When did you make that transition from successful athlete to coaching?

You moved to the US in the late 90s and decided to build a coaching business, what was it like moving to a new country and building a coaching business where you probably did not know a whole lot of people?

All great coaches learn from other people Arthur Lydiard, Phil Maffetone, Joe Vigil, these are some well-known coaches, whose training methods have had the biggest impact on our coaching philosophy?

How many people are you coaching now?

What is the typical profile of your client?

If you have a non-professional athlete who works a full-time job, maybe travels for their job, has a husband or wife at home and three kids, what do you need to take into consideration to create a plan that they can execute, do consistently and reach their goals?

Do most of the athletes you coach come from a running background, or what is their athletic background?

You start to work with a new client who has a running background who wants to become a triathlete, how do you start working with them?

Do you work with most of your athletes in person or do you do virtual coaching too?

You mention you may get a 3:15 marathoner who comes to you, how do you break it up early in their training between the run which they are experienced with vs. bike and swim?

You talked about Periodization in your training, Is a training plan much like a running plan where you start with a base of time/miles and as you get closer to the event the more race specific it becomes and is it different for each of the disciplines?

How does your peak week for a triathlon differ from the early weeks, do you change the time with maybe bike or swim and focus more on the area they are weaker in?

For the average athlete, you have that comes to you looking to do their first triathlon how long do you like an athlete to have to work on a program before they try their first triathlon?

In your coaching how much do you use heart rate or power zones vs going strictly by feel?

Come race day how do you plan out your race? What advice do you have for knowing the best race strategy for that new triathlete?

You mention transition zones, how much time can be saved or lost in a transition between the two transition zones?

How much time do you work on the transitions?

Let's talk about some of the most common sticky points or FAQ’s

-How do you find the right race for you?

-How can you spot and correct under or over training

-How do you do rest days when you are going hard on swim one day, do you come back with a hard bike or run or do you need a rest day?

-What are some of the key workouts you have that you think may be a good indicator of fitness and how ready someone is for their next race?

You have been in the sport a long time, how has it changed since the late 80’s?

You are starting a new a Youth Development Running Program in Miami, can you tell us about that?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite endurance/running book? - Jim Fixx Complete book of Running
Current trainers you are wearing? -  Asics DSTrainer
Favorite race? - Anything inside of Central Park
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Chocolate milk
Your favorite workout - Hills running

how can people follow you on social or online

Website Tri2One



Aug 1, 2017

Hi everyone, Dean Ouellette the social media director for Final Surge here and tomorrow we have a great new training podcast to release. Today we want to tell you about a new promotion we are running with Olympian Nick Symmonds.  As most of you probably know by now, we have a released a completely new iOS app for Final Surge that is getting rave reviews.

To help promote this we teamed up with Nick Symmonds and are giving away a years supply of Run Gum. To enter to win just head over to and sign up. There are no costs, no obligations. And make sure you head to the Apple App Store and download the new iOS app and leave a review in the app store. So head to and enter now to win a free year of run gum.



Jul 27, 2017

Welcome to episode 54 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome Dr. Chris Segler who was a competitive triathlete and is a doctor who specializes in working with endurance athletes. I first found Chris on his Doc On The Run podcast. Chris has an attitude of keeping the athlete going if at all possible while working through an injury and we talk about that and some other practical advice when visiting a doctor. We hope you enjoy this episode and over the next two w, eks we have one of the top triathlete coaches and one of the top distance running coaches around talking training. 

Listen to the podcast on iTunes or listen to it on Stitcher if you have an Android device.

Stream it right here:


How did you get interested in endurance sports?

When did you make the transition to triathlons?

When you decided you wanted to become a doctor, did you always plan on having endurance athletes as the backbone of your practice?

Can you tell our listeners about your Doc on the Run podcast and how it got started?

Someone comes down with on “overuse” injury say shin splints or planters or runners knee, what is  biggest mistake doctors and physical therapists who do not specialize in endurance athletes make?

If someone goes and see a doctor and the doctors says your activity is causing pain, so stop doing that activity, what questions should the athlete ask the doctor to make sure this is the best advice?

One thing you talk about a lot is making sure the Dr. is on your team. How do you make sure they are?

When someone has an overuse injury the most common recommendation is RICE. Where do you come down with ice to get rid of inflammation vs. allowing the inflammation to heal you?

It is said that 75-85% of running injuries from poor biomechanics. Is there any truth to that?

How often do lower leg injuries start at the hips?

Everyone is different but if you were talking to a group of 200 runners what are some exercise you would give them to help reduce the risk of injuries?

What exercises would you recommend to get the glutes firing?

How important are running shoes?

What should people be looking for?

Listener question from Nancy on Twitter:

Before becoming a runner she went to Dr. for nerve pain from ball of foot to toes. He said it was a callous. Eventually it went away but she became a runner-5 yrs now. When but uo  miles started having nerve pain when breaking in new shoes Then it progressed to hurting with broken in shoes so I put a metatarsal pad in shoes. Saturday I landed on a rock so whole ball of foot is sore today so maybe I'll do contrast baths. I qualified for Boston 6 weeks ago  And am training for a fall marathon. Question: in addition to the contrast bath and taping, do you recommend any exercises for the foot? 

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite running book? - Iron War
Current trainers you are wearing? - Hoka Bondi
Favorite race? - Ironman France
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Smoothie loaded
Your favorite workout - Mile repeats on the track

Doc on the run

Brad Beers video’s for hips he recommends 

My Running Doc on Twitter


Jul 26, 2017

We have exciting new news about our new iOS mobile update. If you have any feedback please contact us on Twitter @FinalSurge or send a contact through our support 

Jul 19, 2017

Welcome to episode 52 of the Final Surge podcast. Today we welcome back Olympian and World silver medalist Nick Symmonds who joined us previously on episode 25. In this episode, we talk about Nick’s last race around the oval and his transition from 800m specialist to marathoner. Next week Final Surge has some big news which Nick will be helping us promote, and we’ll be giving away a free year’s supply of Run Gum during this promotion. Keep an eye on our Facebook Page and our Twitter page for full details. 

Last time we talked you announced this was going to be your last season on a track and then you were going to finish off your career with a marathon. So how did your last race go?

How do you think that 800 team that qualified from the US will do at Worlds? 

You have done thousands of laps around that oval, knowing these were going to be your final two laps racing, what was going through your mind as you were waiting for the race to start?

It was hot in Sacramento, but considering the heat, the crowds in the stands were not what I am sure was being hoped for. What do you think we need to do to package track differently to get people back into the stands?

Last week I watched the championship race of the Tracktown Summer Series, where you were one of the team managers. I liked the team concept and found it really interesting. I found myself pulling for SF and Portland because of the team managers. What do you think they did successfully that could be used to build off of?

You have things you would like to do, but you also know the leadership in the sport. What do you think is the future of the sport? Where do you think we will be in 10 years?

Are there any groups you think are doing track right? Do you think the Diamond League or any country is doing it well and growing the sport?

One thing I think track can do better is marketing the athletes. Part of that is the athlete doing what they can to build their own fan base. One way you are successful with this is your new Vlog. How did that come about?

Who is helping you with these vlogs? What does the production for them look like?

In episode 25 you told our listeners that you would be doing a marathon, then in your vlog you announced your marathon is going to be the Honolulu Marathon. Why did you choose this race?

Just looking at you, your body has a build of a 800/1500 runner, what are your plans for training, do you plan on trying to drop weight or to see what you can achieve with your current build?

How is your nutrition changing?

One thing you talk about in the vlog is having goals, what will be your goal after a marathon? An ultra?

If you qualify for Boston would you run it?

Your Run Gum business is going well and I am sure it is a full-time job. How are you going to balance your business and training schedule?

How is your marathon training being handled, are you using your coach?

What does a week of training look like right now?

Coming into the US 800, what was your peak mileage?

One of our listeners would like to know an example of workout(s) planned in the peak mileage phase of your marathon cycle?

Run Gum is offering an all expended paid trip to run the Honolulu Marathon with you. Can you tell our listeners about that?

We usually end with the Final Surge round, but if anyone wants to hear your answers they can check out episode 25. I want to do something different here. I want to thank you. As a high school coach, when I ask my kids who their favorite runner is the most popular answer is Nick Symmonds. You have been such a great ambassador for the sport. You have been such a great advocate for the athlete. You have given back so much to the sport and have taken time to talk to and inspire kids and sign autographs. I want to thank you for all you have done for the sport and wish you the best.


Jul 12, 2017

Welcome to episode 51 of the Final Surge podcast, today we talk to Eric Christensen who is a Physical Therapist in Arizona. Eric has a Doctorate of Physical Therapy and a degree in Exercise Science. Eric has a new book coming out called Breathe Better. You can get the first two chapters of his book at In this episode, we talk about breathing and how it could be affecting your running. Next week we will be welcoming back Olympian Nick Symmonds to discuss his marathon training. Don’t forget to follow us on Twitter @FinalSurge and leave a review for us on iTunes or Stitcher. Now on to the show.

Dr. Christensen welcome to the Final Surge Podcast, it is great to have you here today.

You are a physical therapist in Chandler Arizona, can you tell our listeners how you got interested in the physical therapy field?

You wrote a book coming out called Breathe Better. How did this book come about?

We all breath, so this may not be something most people think about as a problem. How did you identify this as a problem?

If a recreational runner comes to you, what are some things you identify that make you say this person needs to work on their breathing?

If someone has runner knee or knee pain, how can breathing be a contributing factor to that?

How would you go about training or retraining your breathing?

Now what about something like side stitches, can changing your breathing help this?

A lot of these issues with breathing you mentioned lifestyle. Is this because of the amount of time we spend hunching over our desks and phones?

What can we look for in terms of signs during the day that we are falling into bad habits?

Coaches teach breathing in through your nose out through you amount, is it fully in through the nose or is it a combination?

If someone comes into a physical therapist and are not getting the results they want, how can they use your book to see if maybe a change in breathing could help them?

What about those that may not have an injury, is there something in your book that they could find to just help with performance?

How often does someone need to work on this to make the changes in their breathing?

What percentage of people who come in to see you would you say need to work on their breathing?

Who is your book intended for?

Where can someone find your book?

Instagram: @Chandler_PT
Facebook: Chandler Physical Therapy
Twitter: chandler_PT

Jun 28, 2017

Welcome to episode 50 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we talk to Derek Rubis. If you are active on Twitter you likely know Derek as DDritzenhein, the hub of running. Derek has a reputation as the #1 running fan around. Derek also has had a unique experience where he has been coached by a different coach each week for the last 3 years. Derek has had well-known coaches such as Ben Rosario and Danny Mackey. Derek is also an honorary member of the Brooks Beast Distance Group. 

How did you get started in running?

Some of our listeners are going to know you from Twitter as DDRitzenhein, the Hub of Distance Running if you can give us a little info about how you started getting connected to so many great distance runners and coaches?

You are one of the most active Twitter users I know, you have sent over 330k tweets. So how did this passion that you have now become so strong?

You are an honorary member of the Brooks Beast Pro Distance Running Group and the Melbourne Track Club & brand ambassador for Run Gum. How did these relationships develop?

One of the most interesting things is your training. It appears that you get trained by a different coach/athlete ever week is that correct?

How did this start and who did you first work with on this project?

Who are some of the most memorable that come to mind when you think of all the coaches you have had?

When you switch from one coach to the next how does that work with your training for events?

Are you currently training for any specific races?

How do you blend one week into the next?

You have seen more training from more great coaches than probably just about any distance runner. So what have you learned from this experience?

Are there any common themes you notice between all the successful coaches?

Who has given you the most challenging week yet?

What are some of the most memorable workouts you have done?

Who are you currently being coached with right now?

Do you have any big trips or races planned for this summer?

How many coaches have you had so far?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Like Father, Like Son
Current trainers you are wearing? - Brooks Launch 3
Favorite race? - 3k steeple
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - SOS Rehydrate
Your favorite workout - Michigan workout

Connect with Derek


Jun 21, 2017

Welcome to episode 49 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome the Dr. Jay Dicharry. Jay is the author of a must have book for any coach, Anatomy for Runners. Jay discusses what to look for when looking for a physical therapist, we talk foot strike location, shoes, and some common injuries. 

How did you get started in running and endurance athletics when you were a kid?

What are you focusing on right now, are you working mostly in research or are you working with athletes?

When I talk to other coaches and we talk about books, there are two books that I say I could not live without. #1 on that list is Anatomy for Runners. How did this book come about?

There seem to be two types of common types of physical therapists. Type one is, you have a pain, let’s shut you down for a week or two while we do therapy and then start with a light jog for a couple days a week. And then there is the second type that says I know you are runner and my goal is to keep you running while you work through this. Do you have any advice on picking a good physical therapist who understands competitive athletes?

Are there any designations or initials after their name that we may want to be looking for? SCS or OCS

I go to a few coaching clinics a year, and when the question comes up how do you keep them healthy, the most common answer is run them on soft surfaces. Where we live, we are on concrete sidewalks for 2 miles before we can get to a dirt canal trail. What does the research show on the difference of different surfaces and injuries?

If you were talking in front of a group of 200 runners and they wanted shoe advice, is there any general advice on what runners could look for as qualities in a good shoe vs poor shoe choice?

Running shoes have been around for decades, and shoe companies are always making technology advancements, and the running injury rate is not getting better. Is there anything coming in shoe technology that could help?

And when it comes to shoes we hear a lot about over pronation. It seems there is an issue with diagnosing everyone as overpronators. What are your thoughts on shoes and pronation?

How do we get this information out to shoe stores?

When it comes to flexibility you mention in your book that all you need is proper range of motion to do the movement you are trying to accomplish, so a swimmer and cyclist and runner would all have different range of motion needs. Is there any benefit of stretching at all for general health and injury prevention?

When it comes to warmups you of course recommend dynamic movement but I know you also don’t recommend the most popular movements which are A/B skips. Can you explain why you don’t recommend them and what are a few of your favorite exercises pre workout?

You mentioned running is pushing and putting force into the ground, but there are also programs out there that teach you running is falling forward, how do they differ?

Glad you mentioned about landing underneath your body, the best professional distance runners when you watch them in slow motion are slightly ahead of their body, so what are we really looking for here is it foot location, angle of shin at contact or what?

If someone is overstriding I’m guessing you wouldn’t tell them to purposely change their foot strike location when they are running, what should runners work on?

When I look at many athletes with lower leg injuries and I film them, what I see with these athletes is what I believe you call toilet bowl of doom in your book. Can you explain this and how to address it?

We see shin splints in our high school and middle school girls, it seems to be way more prevalent on the girl's side, but they get shin splints so often that we joke it is contagious. What are your recommendations?

Runners' knee is another big one, what are the most common issues with runners knee that you see?

What about wearable devices. How are they coming along in helping runners address the things they need to work on?

What about your typical age group runner who probably spends most of their day sitting, what do they need to work on with body positioning?

Are you working on any new books coming out?

Are you ready to go minimal video
Jay's book Anatomy for Runners
Jay's website

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