Final Surge Podcast

In the Final Surge Podcast, we interview coaches, athletes authors, and endurance industry experts to help you train with a purpose.
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Oct 25, 2017

We were supposed to have Runners World’s Bart Yasso on the podcast this week, but he had some technical difficulties so we had to reschedule his interview. This week we bring you one of our earliest and most popular episodes where we talked to Tom Tinman Schwartz for an hour about training. This is probably the most detailed training episode we have done to date. 

Oct 18, 2017

In episode 61 of the Final Surge podcast, we welcome coach Jim Vance who literally wrote the book on power meters of runners with his book Run With Power. Power meters have been around for a while with cyclists, but for runners, they are fairly new. Final Surge recently started importing Stryd’s power numbers from Strava and Garmin. We talk to Jim about what some of those numbers mean and how he used power training to coach Ben Kanute to his recent runner-up at the 70.3 Worlds. I just recently started playing with a Stryd power meter so I learned a lot as I did this podcast. This is a topic we will continue to cover as we become more familiar with it and as the technology continues to advance. If you are listening to this podcast when it first comes out you head over to or to our @FinalSurge Twitter account and register for a chance to win a free Stryd running power meter.

Listen to the podcast on iTunes or listen to it on Stitcher if you have an Android device.

Stream it right here:


You coach some great Triathlon athletes including Olympian Ben Kanute, how did you first get started in endurance athletics and how did that lead to coaching today?

Let’s start here, most endurance athletes have heard about power meters for the bike, but what is the power meter for running?

How can a power meter help a runner? If someone gets a new power meter, what is the first thing a runner should do?

What is your power number that you get, what does it mean?

Once I have a dataset of 4-6 weeks of runs, what numbers should I be looking at and trying to change and improve?

How will power numbers differ for different workouts like a long run vs a tempo run?

As a coach, I am trying to understand this better. If we are doing a 7x1k workout at tempo, how do I use a power number?

Can you talk about these zones and how you use them to write workouts?

What is the biggest difference in power numbers you are going to see in newer runners vs more experienced runners?

What would be a significant change in these numbers, what are you looking for in numbers?

Facebook question: So, page 205 (Power book by Vance) says the analysis should explore the following key metrics in the post-race analysis: NP, IF, VI, TSS, EI, CTL the day before race day, TSB on race day, w/kg during the race, power zone distributions, point in the race where power and/or pace dropped off. This appears to be the story that emerges which should guide your next training cycle. Is there a simplified way to understand that story? I realize I should look at the numbers and decide a weak area...but that's a lot of numbers! Can you guide our eye for making decisions about the next step in training?

You recently released some plans on Final Surge for running with power, can you tell us what is in those plans?

You mentioned Ben Kanute ran a 340 for power in a 70.3 race, when we are looking at the power number in Final Surge should we be aiming for a certain number.

Run With Power
Vance on Twitter
Vance Training Plans

Oct 11, 2017

If you are following us on Twitter @FinalSurge or on Facebook you have probably seen the project with Matt Fitzgerald we have been helping to promote called The Running Bum. Matt sees what it is like when a decent age group runner in his mid-40s becomes a full-time runner and joins Ben Rosario’s Northern Arizona Elite Team as a member.  We discuss with both Matt and Ben what the experience was like and what Matt learned that he can use in his coaching. Thanks for following the Running Bum blog online and enjoy this episode we did with Matt and Ben. 

What brought on this idea to go run and train with a professional group?

Why NAZ Elite and Ben Rosario, is there a reason you reached out to them specifically?

Ben, what were your thoughts when he reached out to you?

When did the training start for the Running Bum project?

Where were you in your marathon fitness in November when you reached out to Ben about the project?

What was your marathon PR before this project?

Ben, what did you think when he approached you saying he wanted to run a PR 9-years later?

Was there a moment after you arrived in Flagstaff that you thought this may be different than I thought it would be?

You faced some setbacks with injuries, a groin issue, an Achilles issue. I know you say you have a long history of injuries. Training with pros, this could have gone anyway on the injury front. Can you talk about the setbacks and what you learned from them?

Ben, was there a point where you got concerned or did these health issues not surprise you?

How long did it take to get you adapted to the altitude in Flagstaff?

Besides training at altitude, what do you think changed the most about your training when you started training with professionals?

Ben, when you have a team, you have a team chemistry. When you add in a new athlete it can change the atmosphere and chemistry of the team. How did it go adding Matt in?

Reading the stories on the blog, you talk about the conversations with the other athletes on the runs. This was one of the more enjoyable parts. What was it like running on a team when you were not used to it?

Was there anything about the structure of the week or the workouts that surprised you?

Ben, what would a 9-day cycle look like a month out from the race?

Was there anyone workout that you saw that stood out as it looked hard and had you worried?

What did you learn from this experience that you can use in your coaching going forward? 

I was looking at your splits per mile on your Final Surge Log, you started out with a 6:02 per mile pace. Every mile after that was right around there within about ten seconds. Your last couple of miles show a 6:02, 6:07, 6:03 pace. You don't seem to have hit the wall and were pretty consistent, how did this vary from past marathons you have done?

Ben, we have a lot of recreational runners trying to get better. If you had someone at home who had a full-time job, kids at home and were busy, what advice would you give them to running a successful marathon where they don't hit the wall?

What was it like being in the same coral as the elite runners at a world major marathon?

Was there any point in the race you had any concerns?

Ben, was there a point you were concerned it would not go as well as it did?

Whats next, are you ready to go after a mile PR?


Matt Fitzgerald Website 
The Running Bum blog 
Final Surge entry for Matt’s actual Chicago Run 
Northern Arizona Elite 
Matt on Twitter
Ben on Twitter 
Final Surge on Twitter
Final Surge Facebook page
Matt’s Final Surge Episode 29 recording 

Sep 27, 2017

Make sure you check out the Running Summit at


Follow us on Twitter @FinalSurge

Sep 20, 2017

Welcome to Episode 59 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome legendary coach Dennis Barker. Dennis was the long-time coach of Team USA Minnesota where his athletes achieved 75 top 3 finishes in US Championships and 29 different athletes made world championships teams. We talk about some fundamentals of training and his new book The River Road.


How did you get your start in running?

You founded Team USA Minnesota in 2001, at that time there was Team Hanson, Mammoth, maybe Oregon Project around that time, how has that team aspect lead to a resurgence in American distance success?

We were solid in the 70’s and 80’s, and we have had this resurgence, what happened in the 90’s where the US fell off the map so badly?

USATF teaches a strict periodization where coaches such as Salazar do more year-round training, how have you seen that change?

You mentioned you ran a lot of local races. If you look at local 5k/10k runners, how should they structure their year of training?

How does a coach who has coached 29 World qualifiers move to high school coaching?

How is training different besides just the volume?

Your new book The River Road is a novel, the running community had Once A Runner, was your goal to write the next great running novel?

As you wrote this you got the chance to think about the last 30-40 years of running. What has changed the most over that time?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Coe/Martin Training
Current trainers you are wearing? - Asics
Favorite race? - Carrie Tolleson 1500 Final 2004 Olympic Trials
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Octoberfest Beer
Your favorite workout - 8x1200, 24x100m hills

River Road Book

Dennis on Twitter

Sep 13, 2017

Welcome to episode 58 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome Jens Jakob Andersen. Jens founded, a website with the goal to help you find your next pair of running shoes and to offer you a deal on them. In this episode, we talk about the growth of RunRepeat, how free shoes could bias results of these reviews and what are some of the trends he is seeing in shoes. Please remember to leave us a review on iTunes. Your review will help us grow our podcast. Next week we have one of the legends of coaching who will be joining us to talk training.  

How did you get your start in running?

How did your passion for running lead you to create RunRepeat?

When did RunRepeat start?

Can you explain to our listeners the goal of RunRepeat?

Each shoe has a number score associated with it, how does the rating system work?

Reviews are from experts on other sites and users who review the shoes on your site?

Who are these expert reviewers that work for you?

If reviewers are getting free shoes, can it cause a bias in the reviews?

If a new shoe was provided for free, will they look at the reviews and treat you differently?

How many miles do they run in a pair of shoes before they review?

What are some of the current trends you see in running shoes that seem to be having a good impact?

What about the Nike 2 hour shoe, what do you think of that shoe project?

All this money goes into marketing to say their shoe is the best. So how does someone find out what is the best shoe for them?

When I was younger I run almost solely in the Asics GT 2020 line and its successors, in the last decade though I almost never buy the same shoe two times in a row. Do you find people tend to buy the same shoe each time or do they tend to jump around between brands and models?

If I am always buying something new, I need to go into a store to try them on. If someone is buying online would you recommend they stick to the same shoe because they cannot try them on?

When do you know its time for new shoes?

Do you find the shoes that rate the highest are the most popular shoes that companies market the most or do you find no relationship between ratings and popularity?

We have had some new companies emerge over the last few years such as the Sketchers Performance line and Under Armor, what do you see as up and coming running shoe lines?

They recently signed King Cheserek to a deal which is a huge name. I had a pair of GoRuns about two years ago and if I am being honest, they were probably the most comfortable running shoes I ever owned, but they broke down really quickly. What are you seeing from them and the ratings?

I noticed one of your studies showed that the higher the priced shoe, the lower the ratings were, is that because people have unreasonable expectations when they spend more or why do you think that is?

You have a study which was ironically posted on your website on July 4th that said American runners are getting slower. But when we look at the Olympic A standard qualifications like the 5k, they the standard was faster in 2016 than it was in 2012, and we had more people who hit the faster A standard. So the elites are not getting slower, so tell us about this report?

Is it because more people who would have never considered doing a marathon before are now doing it for charity?

What other interesting studies do you have coming out?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Shoe Dog
Current trainers you are wearing? - Declined
Favorite race? - Norway 1k vertical climb
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Chocolate
Your favorite workout - 10x400 with 1 minute rest + 3 min rest then 10x200 with 1 minute.

Email Jens
RunRepeat Website

Sep 6, 2017

In Episode 57 we welcome Carrie Lane, Sports Performance Coach at Authentic Performance Center, USTFCCA Strength Training Certification Instructor. Former track and field coach at University of Nebraska and University of Virginia.


How did you get your start in endurance athletics when you were younger?

You are known for your strength training, but you ran collegiately as a distance runner, can you tell us how you got made that transition?

A lot of young athletes, especially distance runners, are becoming more specialized. How important is building an endurance athlete even more so than just a distance runner to remain durable and for consistency?

You mention plyometrics, when do you move athletes from plyos to getting under the bar and lifting?

When you read about coaches like Percy Cuerety, and runners like Sebastian Coe we hear a lot about strength training that is not running specific. So where do we start in build dynamic runners?

How often would you do the skipping and dynamic warm ups?

How would the warm up differ before a recovery day vs a workout day?

Over a course of a week, what type of structure should all these exercises have?

Carrie discusses using a rope for hurdle mobility drills.

When you finally get into a weight room, how often should an athlete be in the weight room?

On those weight room days would you recommend getting them in on a workout or easy day?

Should the weight room days be done in a different part of the day like run in the AM and weights later in the day?

We think of strength work for a sprinter or thrower, but why is it important to work on strength for endurance athletes?

What about the differences between male and female, what areas are different that they need to work on?

We recently started doing a band routine a day post run. How much band work do you typically incorporate?

If you have some dynamic warm-ups leg swings before you run, then you have core work almost daily. Work in some band work. You have some plyo work and you are getting into the weight rooms a few times a week, is there a point for a distance runner where the returns are just not worth the extra time you are doing?

You have a program you have made available for distance runners, can you tell us about that and what is included.

Strength Program 

Carrie on Twitter
Carrie on Instagram 

Aug 23, 2017

Welcome to Episode 56 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome Jonathan Beverly an author at Runner’s World and is a former Editor at Running Times. Jonathan has recently released the book Your Best Stride. We dig into what your best stride is and how you get there. We have been getting a lot of great feedback over our iOS App and the updated Android App is being worked on as we speak. Make sure you download the app and review it in the App iStore. Also follow us on Twitter and Facebook @FinalSurge.

How did you get your start with running?

How did you transfer from a high school runner to the editor of Running Times?

You have a new book called Your Best Stride. What made you decide to write this book?

You have been running since 1980 so you have been around, is there anything you learned while writing this book that really surprised you?

Let’s start digging in with upper body and the role it plays. I have a sophomore girl who just joined our team who is a first-time runner. Day one she held her arms way up and pretty much in front of her, can you talk about the role the arm swing plays in our stride?

You stress all things starting at the hip, can you talk about how important the hip is?

How do we get our hip flexors extended or loosened?

How do you make sure you glute bridges are right so you make sure you feel it in your glutes, not your hamstrings?

Your Best stride, how does that differ from the best form for all?

One thing that is discussed all the time when we are talking about stride is foot strike. How important is foot strike?

How can someone with a large overstrike work on their mechanics to fix this?

Can you talk about what we are doing for the 22.5 hours a day we are not exercising and how it effects our running?

What do you recommend about running shoes and switching them up? If you find a shoe that seems to work should you buy a bunch and stick with it or should you switch them up?

When you are going to the running store and they look at you and say you over pronate, what would you recommend?

We all want our best stride, what cues can we use to check ourselves while we are running?

What are some other things you can briefly tease our listeners with that are included in your book?

What are you working on now, any other books you have coming?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite endurance/running book? - Road Racing for Serious Runners
Current trainers you are wearing? - Topo Fli-lyght 2
Favorite race? - 10 miles
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Peanut butter and honey sandwich
Your favorite workout - Tempo run


Jonathan on Twitter 

Your Best Stride

Aug 16, 2017

Welcome to episode 55 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we do something a little different. This week we talk to a variety of professional coaches who coach Olympic athletes, high school coaches who are among the most successful in the country, professional athletes and coaches who coach mostly online and we talk to them about training logs. We ask them who should be using a training log, what should be included in the log and their experiences with training logs. Now onto the show.

This week’s guests

Drew Wartenburg
Norcal website
Norcal on Instagram
Norcal on Twitter 
Drew on Twitter 

Neely Spence Gracey
Neely Website 
Neely on Instagram 
Neely on Twitter 

Mario Fraioli
Mario Website 
Morning Shakeout 
Mario on Twitter 

Joan Hunter
Joan on Twitter

Matt Fitzgerald
Running Bum Blog
Matt on Twitter 

Sean McCaffery
CBA on Twitter 

Kyle Kranz
Kyle on Twitter 
Kyle Website 

Aug 9, 2017

Welcome to episode 54 of the Final Surge podcast where today we talk to triathlete turned coach Marcelo Holcberg. We discuss with Marcelo who his biggest influences are, how busy professionals can train for triathlons and how he works with periodization. Remember to follow us on Twitter @FinalSurge and don't forget to subscribe and rate us on iTunes.

How did you get your start in endurance athletics?

What was the hardest part of the transition from running to triathlons?

When did you make that transition from successful athlete to coaching?

You moved to the US in the late 90s and decided to build a coaching business, what was it like moving to a new country and building a coaching business where you probably did not know a whole lot of people?

All great coaches learn from other people Arthur Lydiard, Phil Maffetone, Joe Vigil, these are some well-known coaches, whose training methods have had the biggest impact on our coaching philosophy?

How many people are you coaching now?

What is the typical profile of your client?

If you have a non-professional athlete who works a full-time job, maybe travels for their job, has a husband or wife at home and three kids, what do you need to take into consideration to create a plan that they can execute, do consistently and reach their goals?

Do most of the athletes you coach come from a running background, or what is their athletic background?

You start to work with a new client who has a running background who wants to become a triathlete, how do you start working with them?

Do you work with most of your athletes in person or do you do virtual coaching too?

You mention you may get a 3:15 marathoner who comes to you, how do you break it up early in their training between the run which they are experienced with vs. bike and swim?

You talked about Periodization in your training, Is a training plan much like a running plan where you start with a base of time/miles and as you get closer to the event the more race specific it becomes and is it different for each of the disciplines?

How does your peak week for a triathlon differ from the early weeks, do you change the time with maybe bike or swim and focus more on the area they are weaker in?

For the average athlete, you have that comes to you looking to do their first triathlon how long do you like an athlete to have to work on a program before they try their first triathlon?

In your coaching how much do you use heart rate or power zones vs going strictly by feel?

Come race day how do you plan out your race? What advice do you have for knowing the best race strategy for that new triathlete?

You mention transition zones, how much time can be saved or lost in a transition between the two transition zones?

How much time do you work on the transitions?

Let's talk about some of the most common sticky points or FAQ’s

-How do you find the right race for you?

-How can you spot and correct under or over training

-How do you do rest days when you are going hard on swim one day, do you come back with a hard bike or run or do you need a rest day?

-What are some of the key workouts you have that you think may be a good indicator of fitness and how ready someone is for their next race?

You have been in the sport a long time, how has it changed since the late 80’s?

You are starting a new a Youth Development Running Program in Miami, can you tell us about that?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite endurance/running book? - Jim Fixx Complete book of Running
Current trainers you are wearing? -  Asics DSTrainer
Favorite race? - Anything inside of Central Park
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Chocolate milk
Your favorite workout - Hills running

how can people follow you on social or online

Website Tri2One



Aug 1, 2017

Hi everyone, Dean Ouellette the social media director for Final Surge here and tomorrow we have a great new training podcast to release. Today we want to tell you about a new promotion we are running with Olympian Nick Symmonds.  As most of you probably know by now, we have a released a completely new iOS app for Final Surge that is getting rave reviews.

To help promote this we teamed up with Nick Symmonds and are giving away a years supply of Run Gum. To enter to win just head over to and sign up. There are no costs, no obligations. And make sure you head to the Apple App Store and download the new iOS app and leave a review in the app store. So head to and enter now to win a free year of run gum.



Jul 27, 2017

Welcome to episode 54 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome Dr. Chris Segler who was a competitive triathlete and is a doctor who specializes in working with endurance athletes. I first found Chris on his Doc On The Run podcast. Chris has an attitude of keeping the athlete going if at all possible while working through an injury and we talk about that and some other practical advice when visiting a doctor. We hope you enjoy this episode and over the next two w, eks we have one of the top triathlete coaches and one of the top distance running coaches around talking training. 

Listen to the podcast on iTunes or listen to it on Stitcher if you have an Android device.

Stream it right here:


How did you get interested in endurance sports?

When did you make the transition to triathlons?

When you decided you wanted to become a doctor, did you always plan on having endurance athletes as the backbone of your practice?

Can you tell our listeners about your Doc on the Run podcast and how it got started?

Someone comes down with on “overuse” injury say shin splints or planters or runners knee, what is  biggest mistake doctors and physical therapists who do not specialize in endurance athletes make?

If someone goes and see a doctor and the doctors says your activity is causing pain, so stop doing that activity, what questions should the athlete ask the doctor to make sure this is the best advice?

One thing you talk about a lot is making sure the Dr. is on your team. How do you make sure they are?

When someone has an overuse injury the most common recommendation is RICE. Where do you come down with ice to get rid of inflammation vs. allowing the inflammation to heal you?

It is said that 75-85% of running injuries from poor biomechanics. Is there any truth to that?

How often do lower leg injuries start at the hips?

Everyone is different but if you were talking to a group of 200 runners what are some exercise you would give them to help reduce the risk of injuries?

What exercises would you recommend to get the glutes firing?

How important are running shoes?

What should people be looking for?

Listener question from Nancy on Twitter:

Before becoming a runner she went to Dr. for nerve pain from ball of foot to toes. He said it was a callous. Eventually it went away but she became a runner-5 yrs now. When but uo  miles started having nerve pain when breaking in new shoes Then it progressed to hurting with broken in shoes so I put a metatarsal pad in shoes. Saturday I landed on a rock so whole ball of foot is sore today so maybe I'll do contrast baths. I qualified for Boston 6 weeks ago  And am training for a fall marathon. Question: in addition to the contrast bath and taping, do you recommend any exercises for the foot? 

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite running book? - Iron War
Current trainers you are wearing? - Hoka Bondi
Favorite race? - Ironman France
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Smoothie loaded
Your favorite workout - Mile repeats on the track

Doc on the run

Brad Beers video’s for hips he recommends 

My Running Doc on Twitter


Jul 26, 2017

We have exciting new news about our new iOS mobile update. If you have any feedback please contact us on Twitter @FinalSurge or send a contact through our support 

Jul 19, 2017

Welcome to episode 52 of the Final Surge podcast. Today we welcome back Olympian and World silver medalist Nick Symmonds who joined us previously on episode 25. In this episode, we talk about Nick’s last race around the oval and his transition from 800m specialist to marathoner. Next week Final Surge has some big news which Nick will be helping us promote, and we’ll be giving away a free year’s supply of Run Gum during this promotion. Keep an eye on our Facebook Page and our Twitter page for full details. 

Last time we talked you announced this was going to be your last season on a track and then you were going to finish off your career with a marathon. So how did your last race go?

How do you think that 800 team that qualified from the US will do at Worlds? 

You have done thousands of laps around that oval, knowing these were going to be your final two laps racing, what was going through your mind as you were waiting for the race to start?

It was hot in Sacramento, but considering the heat, the crowds in the stands were not what I am sure was being hoped for. What do you think we need to do to package track differently to get people back into the stands?

Last week I watched the championship race of the Tracktown Summer Series, where you were one of the team managers. I liked the team concept and found it really interesting. I found myself pulling for SF and Portland because of the team managers. What do you think they did successfully that could be used to build off of?

You have things you would like to do, but you also know the leadership in the sport. What do you think is the future of the sport? Where do you think we will be in 10 years?

Are there any groups you think are doing track right? Do you think the Diamond League or any country is doing it well and growing the sport?

One thing I think track can do better is marketing the athletes. Part of that is the athlete doing what they can to build their own fan base. One way you are successful with this is your new Vlog. How did that come about?

Who is helping you with these vlogs? What does the production for them look like?

In episode 25 you told our listeners that you would be doing a marathon, then in your vlog you announced your marathon is going to be the Honolulu Marathon. Why did you choose this race?

Just looking at you, your body has a build of a 800/1500 runner, what are your plans for training, do you plan on trying to drop weight or to see what you can achieve with your current build?

How is your nutrition changing?

One thing you talk about in the vlog is having goals, what will be your goal after a marathon? An ultra?

If you qualify for Boston would you run it?

Your Run Gum business is going well and I am sure it is a full-time job. How are you going to balance your business and training schedule?

How is your marathon training being handled, are you using your coach?

What does a week of training look like right now?

Coming into the US 800, what was your peak mileage?

One of our listeners would like to know an example of workout(s) planned in the peak mileage phase of your marathon cycle?

Run Gum is offering an all expended paid trip to run the Honolulu Marathon with you. Can you tell our listeners about that?

We usually end with the Final Surge round, but if anyone wants to hear your answers they can check out episode 25. I want to do something different here. I want to thank you. As a high school coach, when I ask my kids who their favorite runner is the most popular answer is Nick Symmonds. You have been such a great ambassador for the sport. You have been such a great advocate for the athlete. You have given back so much to the sport and have taken time to talk to and inspire kids and sign autographs. I want to thank you for all you have done for the sport and wish you the best.


Jul 12, 2017

Welcome to episode 51 of the Final Surge podcast, today we talk to Eric Christensen who is a Physical Therapist in Arizona. Eric has a Doctorate of Physical Therapy and a degree in Exercise Science. Eric has a new book coming out called Breathe Better. You can get the first two chapters of his book at In this episode, we talk about breathing and how it could be affecting your running. Next week we will be welcoming back Olympian Nick Symmonds to discuss his marathon training. Don’t forget to follow us on Twitter @FinalSurge and leave a review for us on iTunes or Stitcher. Now on to the show.

Dr. Christensen welcome to the Final Surge Podcast, it is great to have you here today.

You are a physical therapist in Chandler Arizona, can you tell our listeners how you got interested in the physical therapy field?

You wrote a book coming out called Breathe Better. How did this book come about?

We all breath, so this may not be something most people think about as a problem. How did you identify this as a problem?

If a recreational runner comes to you, what are some things you identify that make you say this person needs to work on their breathing?

If someone has runner knee or knee pain, how can breathing be a contributing factor to that?

How would you go about training or retraining your breathing?

Now what about something like side stitches, can changing your breathing help this?

A lot of these issues with breathing you mentioned lifestyle. Is this because of the amount of time we spend hunching over our desks and phones?

What can we look for in terms of signs during the day that we are falling into bad habits?

Coaches teach breathing in through your nose out through you amount, is it fully in through the nose or is it a combination?

If someone comes into a physical therapist and are not getting the results they want, how can they use your book to see if maybe a change in breathing could help them?

What about those that may not have an injury, is there something in your book that they could find to just help with performance?

How often does someone need to work on this to make the changes in their breathing?

What percentage of people who come in to see you would you say need to work on their breathing?

Who is your book intended for?

Where can someone find your book?

Instagram: @Chandler_PT
Facebook: Chandler Physical Therapy
Twitter: chandler_PT

Jun 28, 2017

Welcome to episode 50 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we talk to Derek Rubis. If you are active on Twitter you likely know Derek as DDritzenhein, the hub of running. Derek has a reputation as the #1 running fan around. Derek also has had a unique experience where he has been coached by a different coach each week for the last 3 years. Derek has had well-known coaches such as Ben Rosario and Danny Mackey. Derek is also an honorary member of the Brooks Beast Distance Group. 

How did you get started in running?

Some of our listeners are going to know you from Twitter as DDRitzenhein, the Hub of Distance Running if you can give us a little info about how you started getting connected to so many great distance runners and coaches?

You are one of the most active Twitter users I know, you have sent over 330k tweets. So how did this passion that you have now become so strong?

You are an honorary member of the Brooks Beast Pro Distance Running Group and the Melbourne Track Club & brand ambassador for Run Gum. How did these relationships develop?

One of the most interesting things is your training. It appears that you get trained by a different coach/athlete ever week is that correct?

How did this start and who did you first work with on this project?

Who are some of the most memorable that come to mind when you think of all the coaches you have had?

When you switch from one coach to the next how does that work with your training for events?

Are you currently training for any specific races?

How do you blend one week into the next?

You have seen more training from more great coaches than probably just about any distance runner. So what have you learned from this experience?

Are there any common themes you notice between all the successful coaches?

Who has given you the most challenging week yet?

What are some of the most memorable workouts you have done?

Who are you currently being coached with right now?

Do you have any big trips or races planned for this summer?

How many coaches have you had so far?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Like Father, Like Son
Current trainers you are wearing? - Brooks Launch 3
Favorite race? - 3k steeple
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - SOS Rehydrate
Your favorite workout - Michigan workout

Connect with Derek


Jun 21, 2017

Welcome to episode 49 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome the Dr. Jay Dicharry. Jay is the author of a must have book for any coach, Anatomy for Runners. Jay discusses what to look for when looking for a physical therapist, we talk foot strike location, shoes, and some common injuries. 

How did you get started in running and endurance athletics when you were a kid?

What are you focusing on right now, are you working mostly in research or are you working with athletes?

When I talk to other coaches and we talk about books, there are two books that I say I could not live without. #1 on that list is Anatomy for Runners. How did this book come about?

There seem to be two types of common types of physical therapists. Type one is, you have a pain, let’s shut you down for a week or two while we do therapy and then start with a light jog for a couple days a week. And then there is the second type that says I know you are runner and my goal is to keep you running while you work through this. Do you have any advice on picking a good physical therapist who understands competitive athletes?

Are there any designations or initials after their name that we may want to be looking for? SCS or OCS

I go to a few coaching clinics a year, and when the question comes up how do you keep them healthy, the most common answer is run them on soft surfaces. Where we live, we are on concrete sidewalks for 2 miles before we can get to a dirt canal trail. What does the research show on the difference of different surfaces and injuries?

If you were talking in front of a group of 200 runners and they wanted shoe advice, is there any general advice on what runners could look for as qualities in a good shoe vs poor shoe choice?

Running shoes have been around for decades, and shoe companies are always making technology advancements, and the running injury rate is not getting better. Is there anything coming in shoe technology that could help?

And when it comes to shoes we hear a lot about over pronation. It seems there is an issue with diagnosing everyone as overpronators. What are your thoughts on shoes and pronation?

How do we get this information out to shoe stores?

When it comes to flexibility you mention in your book that all you need is proper range of motion to do the movement you are trying to accomplish, so a swimmer and cyclist and runner would all have different range of motion needs. Is there any benefit of stretching at all for general health and injury prevention?

When it comes to warmups you of course recommend dynamic movement but I know you also don’t recommend the most popular movements which are A/B skips. Can you explain why you don’t recommend them and what are a few of your favorite exercises pre workout?

You mentioned running is pushing and putting force into the ground, but there are also programs out there that teach you running is falling forward, how do they differ?

Glad you mentioned about landing underneath your body, the best professional distance runners when you watch them in slow motion are slightly ahead of their body, so what are we really looking for here is it foot location, angle of shin at contact or what?

If someone is overstriding I’m guessing you wouldn’t tell them to purposely change their foot strike location when they are running, what should runners work on?

When I look at many athletes with lower leg injuries and I film them, what I see with these athletes is what I believe you call toilet bowl of doom in your book. Can you explain this and how to address it?

We see shin splints in our high school and middle school girls, it seems to be way more prevalent on the girl's side, but they get shin splints so often that we joke it is contagious. What are your recommendations?

Runners' knee is another big one, what are the most common issues with runners knee that you see?

What about wearable devices. How are they coming along in helping runners address the things they need to work on?

What about your typical age group runner who probably spends most of their day sitting, what do they need to work on with body positioning?

Are you working on any new books coming out?

Are you ready to go minimal video
Jay's book Anatomy for Runners
Jay's website

Jun 14, 2017

In episode 48 of the Final Surge Podcast, we talk to Dr. Stephen Seiler who is the leading researcher on polarized training for endurance athletes. Welcome to episode 48 of the final surge podcast where we welcome

Welcome to episode 48 of the final surge podcast where we welcome Dr. Stephen Seiler. Seiler has spent his career studying the optimal ways for endurance athletes to train and his polarized training methods are the foundation for Matt Fitzgerald’s 80/20 training book. In this episode, we talk about what exactly are the 80/20 zones, where do tempo and threshold runs play into that formula and how to work rest into your interval work. Make sure you follow us on Twitter @FinalSurge and please take a moment to subscribe to us on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher or whatever your podcast app of choice is.

Listen to the podcast on iTunes or listen to it on Stitcher if you have an Android device.

Stream it right here:


Your bio could take me 5 minutes to read, instead of getting into all of it, could you take a minute and introduce yourself to our audience?

We had Matt Fitzgerald on a while back and talked about his 80/20 book. You are referenced many times in that book. And I’m actually holding a huge packet here in my hand called Seiler’s Hierarchy of Endurance Training Needs. How did you get interested in sports science?

Most of the research I have seen from you is with cyclist and xc-skiers. But what you have learned from your research is also able to be applied to other endurance athletes like runners and triathletes correct?

Can you explain polarized training?

Is there a better way to define these high intensity, low intensity, and middle grounds?

If we look at Mark Wetmore at the University of Colorado, probably the most respected college coach in the game today, Joe Vigil who is maybe the most successful college coach ever, and very successful in developing athletes who go on to the next level. With all of these coaches, the tempo runs or lactate threshold are a large staple in what they do. Could there be a case made that for athletes still developing their aerobic system, who maybe run 50 miles a week instead of 130 miles a week that the threshold work could have a big impact on that aerobic development?

If a runner is only running 40 miles a week and not doing 80-120 miles, is it more important for them to maybe do a little more of the high quality, high-end threshold work than someone who is doing 3x their volume?

When someone is in that 80% easy training zone, how easy is that? What would that be in a percent of maximum heart rate?

In that 80%, is there a number you have studied that becomes too low?

On the other end, on the 20%, how long are you trying to get into that area for a workout?

If we are doing those 4x8 minute intervals, what would the recommended rest intervals be?

What would a year of periodization look like under this type of program?

Does the volume that they are doing need to be sports specific, or have you looked at cross training to get the same benefits?

I've read your hierarchy of endurance training a few times. There is a pyramid you have put together in that document on how to train. Can you explain it?

Do you coach or are you just studying this topic?

You’ve been talking about this for several years now, what's new or what ideas have maybe changed since you started?

Do you have anything you are studying that may work on these concepts more?

Has anything interesting come out of studying the micro sessions?

Links to resources:

Research Gate Publications
Hierarchy of Training Needs Document
Stephen Seiler on Twitter

Jun 7, 2017

Welcome to Episode 47 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we get away from specific training and talk about setting and adjusting running goals with Diana Fitts who has a book called Better Running Goals. Diana is a Boston Qualifier and an author of three books. 

Can you tell us how you got your start in running?

I know you are a Boston Marathon qualifier and have also run shorter distances, so what is your preferred distance of choice right now?

I came across you when I found your book, Better Running Goals in which you talk a lot about priorities. Why did you decide to write this book?

You mention that when you started running and training that running became your number one priority. Was that a good thing or an issue in your life?

The one thing you focus on when you are setting goals is your why? Why you run. So could you let us know what your why is and how it has changed over the years?

I know with me the more time I coach the more my passion for sport grows, but I find myself running less and gaining weight while just wanting to run. What are common issues you find in people where people don't make the commitment to the goals they say they want to reach?

How do you find your why, do you have any exercises you recommend?

How do you schedule a week so that you make sure your runs are in place and get done?

In the book, you talk about compromises and different levels of compromises. Can you talk about those?

As priorities change how often or when do you recommend people hit pause and reevaluate their priorities?

What do you do about detours that come up? How do you adjust?

I enjoyed Better Running Goals. Do you have any other books coming up?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Any Matt Fitzgerald mindset book
Current trainers you are wearing? - Brooks Ghost
Favorite race? - Boston Marathon
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Peanut butter
Your favorite workout - Long Tempo Run

Connect with Diana and resources

Free PDF Worksheet: 

May 17, 2017

Welcome to episode 45 of the Final Surge podcast where today we talk to Jim Cielencki. Jim won one of the give-a-ways for Nick Willis’ Miler Method Bootcamp we had last winter. We talk to Jim about the bootcamp, find out what he learned and how the experience was. Jim also has a unique running story. The Buffalo resident ran every mile of every street in Buffalo while training for a marathon and the event went viral and even ended up as a Ted Talk

You were one of the winners from the Miler Method giveaway with Olympian Nick Willis we did in episode 26. I want to talk to you about that experience, how it went and what you learned… but first, it turns out you have a pretty interesting running story of your own. Can you tell our listeners How did you get started in running originally?

Tell us about your running Buffalo experience and what that was about?

How hard was the planning to make sure you did routes where you could always be hitting a new street, while not duplicating?

I’ve seen pictures from the Ted talk you did that show the streets you ran in blue. Was that the Strava heat map that is creating that map?

You are running January 1-May 29th, how much of a factor was the Buffalo weather?

You won the Nick Willis Miler Method contest we did and you got to go through his Miler Bootcamp. What was that process like?

Had you ever really run a full out mile before you did this?

How much time did your mile drop by the end of the bootcamp?

What was the training like, what did you learn from the training you didn’t know before?

How often were you doing track/hill workouts?

Having experience with longer races and coming down to mile training was there anything that surprised you about the training?

What was the community like among those doing the bootcamp, how did you all stay connected?

Would you recommend it others?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Born to Run
Current trainers you are wearing? - Saucony Kinvara
Favorite race? - Buffalo Turkey Trot
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Toast with peanut butter and banana
Your favorite workout - Compound workouts

Episode 26 with Nick Willis.
Ted Talk 
Jim Buffalo Running Instagram
Website for Buffalo Running

May 10, 2017

Many high school teams are winding down their track seasons and starting to think about their summer program. Today we welcome Coach Ben Rosario, who has a couple of high school plans available to purchase on Final Surge in to talk about summer running and building a team culture during the summer. This podcast came as a suggestion and if you have an idea you would like us to explore please send us a message on Twitter @FinalSurge or hit us up on our Facebook Page

We put out a question out on Twitter asking what topics that people wanted us to cover in upcoming podcasts, and we had a group of high school coaches asking for a show on the structure of summer running programs. So we decided who better than the author of probably the best high school cross country book out there which is called Tradition Class Pride, Coach Ben Rosario.

I think we all know the goal of the summer is to build the aerobic base for cross country. I have heard college coaches and successful high school coaches say they think many high school kids are malnutritioned in the aerobic area. So how do we start working on this?

The long run is a staple. I read when Mark Wettmore was a high school coach and winning state championship after state championship his upperclassmen had a 20-mile loop for their long run, and this was high school not at Colorado. And others say high school kids really shouldn’t be running either longer than their age or longer than 90 minutes. What is your thought?

How do you vary mileage between boys and girls in high school?

You have a new summer cross country training plan that will be available for purchase on Final Surge this week. How do you break it down for a team that may have new freshman runners and experienced runners going into their senior year?

For a beginning group of new runners, how many days a week would they run early in the summer compared to the end of the summer?

How do you keep running fun during the summer for them?

What percent or your training is the long run on Saturday?

One of the plans I looked at in week two you add in a couple days a week of drills and strides. What pace should the strides be in?

And you mentioned drills are included, are these form drills?

In the plan I looked at, you started out around 27-miles and built up to just above 50-miles at the end of 10 weeks. What type of mileage do you think this person was doing the season before?

By week two you are getting a workout in on Wednesday, but not really faster than a tempo, and then the long run. The rest of your runs are steady runs, what pace do you recommend. There are some kids who will go to hard and then there are other kids who will jog if you don’t give them some paces. What pace do you recommend based on their current 5k times?

Some questions from Twitter

How often should female HS runners lift weights in the summer? What are 3-5 key lifts to include?

How often should they be doing general strength/core exercises in addition to the lifting?

What's the best way to evaluate HS talent to determine what distance they should run?

You have two programs available for sale on Final Surge, the first is a training plan for the xc season and the second is a detailed schedule for summer running. If someone buys your 5k cross country plan, what can they expect to see inside the program?

Tradition. Class. Pride.
Ben Rosario on Twitter
Final Surge Plans

May 3, 2017

Welcome to episode 43 of the Final Surge Podcast today we talk to professional runner Craig Lutz about how he got his start in running and talk to him about his high school running camps. Please remember to subscribe if you have not done so yet, rate and review us on iTunes and follow us on Twitter @FinalSurge.

You are a very successful professional runner, you had a great college career at the University of Texas, but when did it all start for you, when did you first start really running?

Your high school career was extremely successful. You had a top 4 finish at Footlocker and you won the individual title at Nike Cross Nationals, when did you start thinking of running in college?

What type of mileage did you run in high school?

What was the thought process when you graduated UT to go in the professional running route instead of using the business degree?

You seem to be using that business degree now with your newer Lutz running camp in Flagstaff, can you tell us about the camp?

Is Lutz Running still doing camps in Texas too or just Flagstaff?

How long is the camp in Flagstaff?

What can the kid expect when they come?

Where do the kids stay at your camp?

Some camps have a lot of running involved and some camps have less. How is the running aspect of your camp?

One of my favorite places to run is Buffalo Park. Do you have any plans to run there?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Steve Scott The Miler - Biography
Current trainers you are wearing? - Hoka Clifton 3
Favorite race? - Austin Capital 10k
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Homemade smoothie
Your favorite workout - Mile repeats and long run at altitude.

Twitter: @Craig_Lutz
Craig's Running Log

Apr 26, 2017

Welcome to Episode 42 of the Final Surge Podcast. This week we continue what we started last week with our popular 'best of show'. This week we focus on episodes 21-40 and bring you the best highlights from each podcast.

We hope you enjoy it. If you want to catch any of the full episodes head over to and listen to any episode.

Follow Final Surge on Twitter
Follow Final Surge on Facebook


Apr 19, 2017

Welcome to Episode 41 of the Final Surge Podcast. This week we have something different for you. With 40 episodes recorded, we have talked to some of the greatest living US coaches and endurance athletes around. Every week we add many new listeners to the podcast so we wanted to give you a best of show. We have gone through the first 20 episodes of the podcast and pulled out some of the best highlights from each podcast. This is part one that focuses on Episodes 1-20. We hope you enjoy it. If you want to catch any of the full episodes head over to and listen to any episode.

Follow Final Surge on Twitter
Follow Final Surge on Facebook


Apr 12, 2017

Welcome to episode 40 of the final surge podcast where we talk to Jonathan Marcus, the coach of High Performance West about the subject of coaching. Many of you may know Jonathan as the co-host of Magness and Marcus On Coaching Podcast. We talk about his podcast, and he dives deep into subjects like training and racing strategy as well the word coach means to him.

How did you get your start in running?

At what point in high school did you decide to stop the other sports and focus on running?

How did you get into coaching and then form your group High Performance West? 

Are you looking for only elite athletes or would you accept anyone, even a local 5k runner, if they were serious enough?

You and Steve Magness, who was our guest in Episode 18 of our podcast, you two have a podcast called “On Coaching,” why did you start a podcast on coaching

When you think coach, what is the first thing you think about and how has that changed since becoming a coach compared to when you were running?

You have coached at every level from high school to elite professionals, what would you say are some of the more common mistakes coaches are making in developing runners?

You talk a lot about the latest science and the little things that people are doing to get that extra marginal increase. We have a variety of listeners from high school coaches and age group weekend 5k runners. So knowing the wide variety of people listening do you think many people are making a mistake of focusing too much on the small things before getting the basics down?

You recently did a podcast on interval training. When we are looking at interval training, what should we be looking for as far as putting together a training plan?

Let’s talk about the art of racing, one of your podcast episodes. Playing devil’s advocate, if your goal is to win a race, and there is a one best way to run the race the fastest, isn’t that how you should execute it?

That’s if you are in the position to win. What about the person who may be mid-pack and may end up in no man's land all by themselves in the race. How do you advise that person who is looking to run a PR, not necessarily a win in a race?

Going back to that quote of "the goal of preparation and practice is to perform and compete." Can you give us a few examples of a few workouts that you have done recently with some of your athletes and what your goal was as far as transferring that to racing?

Final Surge 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite running book? - Unforgiving Minute
Current trainers you are wearing? - Sketchers GoRun 5
Favorite race? - Cross Country
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? - Self Made Smoothie
Your favorite workout - Acceleration Session

Website for High Performance West
Podcast On Coaching 
Jonathan Marcus on Twitter 

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