Final Surge Podcast

In the Final Surge Podcast, we interview coaches, athletes authors, and endurance industry experts to help you train with a purpose.
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Dec 3, 2021

Welcome to the Final Surge Podcast. We recorded this episode with Newbury Park Coach Sean Bronsan back in the early summer. But with technical difficulties with Zoom the episode was lost. After working to figure out what happened the recording was found. Newbury Park is concluding on what may very well be the best high school cross country season of all time. This recording happened before the season started so we do not discuss the season, but we do talk about his philosophies that lead to this historic season.

Not only is his boy's team considered by many the best boys team ever, but his girl's team is also ranked in the top 10 nationally. A big takeaway from the interview is his relationship with his athletes and getting them to believe in what is possible. What it takes to be great is different is what it takes to be good and he breaks down what that commitment looks like.

Oct 16, 2021

Welcome to episode 184 of the final surge podcast where we talk to Will and Sean of Running Lane. Running Lane is putting on a national championship race for high school cross country runners this year. With the cancelation of Nike Nationals, there was an opening, and Running Lane is filling that void. They already have a very impressive list of teams and individuals who have committed to attend. We talk to them about the event and the course. Final Surge is thrilled to be a sponsor of the event and we look forward to an amazing event.


You can follow them here

Link to the registration info for teams & individuals:


Apr 14, 2021

Welcome to episode 183 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome Brodie Sharpe from down under to the program. Brodie runs the Run Smarter Podcast. Brodie has a Physiotherapy Practice and helps runners overcome and prevent injuries. We get into some common myths, talk about strength training and other things you can do to stay healthy.

1:30 How did you get started in running?

3:05 How does that play into what you are doing in the running community?

4:15 In the podcast you take subjects and break them up into small chunks, how did the passion for the podcast come about?

6:10 You talk a lot about overcoming injuries, what are common themes when a runner comes in to see you?

8:43 Is part of that because access to the internet so people find workouts and hit it too hard?

11:00 When runners come in with the common issues how often do they go to shoes first as the way to fix the problem?

13:41 Do you put them on a treadmill and look at their gate?

14:36 If someone comes in and they are landing way out in front do you try to change that?

15:59 What do you do to coach them through cadence changes?

17:53 What types of things should they be doing to prevent injuries not overcome?

21:11 For preventive maintenance what type of strength work do you recommend?

23:55 I think there is great agreement on the Olympic style lifts, but how about less reps vs lighter weight more reps?

27:04 One thing you talk about in your podcast is good pain vs bad pain. Can you discuss the difference?

31:49 Advice I have heard is you run and the pain doesn't get worse during the run then it is ok to keep going, is this advice good?

34:19 What are a few of the running myths you hear a lot and talk about?

38:14 What about stretching for runners?

41:44 People are sitting at a desk all day, does it make sense to stretch out the hip flexors?

Run Smarter Podcast

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Mar 16, 2021
Welcome to episode 182 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome Olympian runner turned Olympic Coach Lee Troop to the show. Lee represented Australia in the Olympics as a runner and last year coached his second athlete to an Olympics qualification when Jake Riley qualified for Team USA in the marathon. We talk about his running career, what Jake has been up to, and also discuss Lee's Team Boulder club.


1:10 How did you get started in the running community?

2:12 How big was running in Australia during that time in the early 80's?

6:10 When you got to college were things different in the running community here?

10:03 After college did you stay here?

11:32 How was that running in the Olympics in your how country?

13:58 How did you make the transition into coaching?

18:15 You are coaching Jake Riley who will be running in the Olympics, how did that relationship start?

26:17 Jake is obviously very talented but that Chicago race was a huge breakthrough. Was that more of a mental breakthrough?

30:48 If a coach is building a program do you build it out all 16 weeks in advance or do you do week to week?

34:40 Do you repeat workouts often or do you do different workouts every week?

37:33 What is the plan between now and the Olympics?

43:10 Team Boulder you are really involved with a lot of things going on with the running community there, what are some of the things you are doing?

47:37 Do you do only in person coaching or do you do virtual coaching too remotely?

Lee on Twitter
Lee on Instagram
Team Bouder

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Feb 23, 2021

Welcome to episode 181 of the Final Surge Podcast. This week we welcome professional runner Keira D'Amato to the show. Keira has an amazing story that ended with her just recently getting a professional contract from Nike. This was the first professional contract she was offered, and she was in her mid 30's. She took the time to share her story with us which we think you are going to find fascinating.

1:00 How she got started in running?

2:42 Were you a soccer player?

3:37 Did you consider yourself more of a cross country or track runner?

4:07 What was it about American University that made you want to run there?

5:10 Did you think about running after college?

7:02 Then for the next decade you were just a hobby jogger?

7:45 Give us an idea how many miles you were running during that decade?

9:20 We have talked to athletes who have taken a year or two off, but not a decade. At what point did you decide to start again?

11:12 Was there a moment where you said ok this is for real and I am going to get serious?

12:42 Did you call Scott right after that race to start working together again?

13:50 The last year you have really put your stamp on the sport, talk about it.

15:44 You have a lot of success in longer distances, what is your focus for this year?

17:10 Are you focusing on the 10k or leaving your options open?

17:54 Talk about what a week looks like for your busy schedule?

20:02 In real estate you control your own schedule, but real estate can be demanding too on your time

20:43 Were you looking for the right deal with a contract or was there reluctance because you were late to the sport?

22:45 How did the process go?

23:28 What is coming next for you?

24:40 Contact and Oreo's!

Keira on Instagram
Keira on Strava
Keira on Twitter
Keira Website

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Feb 9, 2021

Welcome to episode 180 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome NAU national champion Tyler Day, who recently turned pro and announced he was joining former collegiate teammate Matt Baxter and Coach Ben Rosario with Northern Arizona Elite. We talked a little bit about his rise from a good Arizona high school runner to one of the best in the country in high school. We then talk about what the process was like when he announced he was turning professional. Tyler is always a fun listen and we hope you enjoy this podcast as much as we did.

1:58 How did you get started in running?

3:36 Once you started running did you keep running or was it a season thing?

4:42 Talk about your high school career

6:46 In your senior year in the 3200 you had the 7th best time in the state. That is good, but how does that project to someone who turns into a champion in college?

9:15 What was it about NAU that attracted you to there?

10:34 What were those national champion teams like with that group of guys?

14:10 You had two great college coaches back-to-back, what was that transition like to Smith?

15:47 As far as the coaching part, what did Coach Smith bring that was magic that seems to work wherever he goes?

17:20 When you were coming out of college you achieved a next level, so what type of interest was there from teams?

18:24 What lead you to Hoka NAZ Elite?

20:25 Did Matt being there help motivate you to join them?

21:15 When that decision time came was the focus always the 10k or did you have the marathon on your mind?

22:38 Is the focus the 10k for the Olympics?

23:17 Where are you now with the rehab?

24:30 What has been the thing that surprised you the most about being a professional runner?

25:47 Being the rookie do Fauble and Baxter make you carry their bags?

26:54 Any races on the books you have?

27:27 One thing the NAZ Elite team does to help their athletes is marketing and finding their niche. Talk about your products.


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Tyler on IG
Tyler on Twitter

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Jan 28, 2021


Welcome to episode 179 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome Bertrand Newsom and Kevin Chang. They both came to running later in life and have teamed up to form Racemob. Racemob is a community of runners that share tips, stories, trumps, and laughter. They are also a podcast and coaching platform using Final Surge.

:52 What is your background, how did you get involved in running?

4:27 How did you guys end up meeting?

7:10 was your plan to build something bigger like Racemob?

9:45 What is the podcast about?

12:42 Are you using this to increase coaching base?

17:07 When you start a business like this you have more people looking to get out but also more people losing their job, so how did that play out?

21:30 Are most virtual or local?

23:25 How have you been using Final Surge?

26:47 What is the avatar of that person you are looking to work with?

29:21 Are you looking to create a stable of coaches?

Racemob Website
Too Legit

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Jan 13, 2021
Welcome to episode 178 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome back Martin Hehir. We had Martin on the podcast almost 4 years ago when he was a year out of college and running with the NAZ Elite team in Flagstaff. Today he is in Philadelphia, going to medical school, getting ready for his residency and has two kids. Yes he is still running though and recently won The Marathon Project race with a sub 2:09. We talk to him about his training and how he pulled that off with everything going on in his life right now.

1:25 Since the last time we had you on you left to go to medical school, can you bring us up to date?

2:58 You got married, go to medical school, had a couple of kids, what has been the hardest part of all that while still training?

4:01 You wanted to continue the running, was there ever a worry you wouldn't have the time?

5:45 When you graduate school are you expecting to still have the time?

6:49 You have been blessed with some amazing coaches, how is it being teamed back up with Coach Fox?

7:52 Fox and Rosario are both successful, but different coaches, what is the biggest difference you have noticed?

12:30 You mentioned other guys, NAZ seems like a tight team, right now you are with a team, but training on your own. Has that been a struggle?

14:00 Your in medical school so what was your reaction when you heard about this virus?

15:16 How did it impact your running?

16:35 How long of a break did you end up taking after the Trials?

18:30 Was there anything on the schedule or not yet?

19:38 You said early Sept you were out of shape, how long did it take you to get back in shape?

20:45 When you have a 20 mile day what does that day look like for you with everything going on?

23:30 Come November did your milage stay the same at 100 miles a week?

24:32 At what point did you realize it could be a big day?

26:10 There was a group of men in the 2:09 range, was it perfect race and perfect conditions or is this the new standard?

28:14 How were those last two weeks leading up to the race?

29:25 Walk us through the race

32:31 With only 4 miles it doesn't sound like much, but those 4 miles are the longest part of the race. What was your thinking when you went to the front?

33:56 At that point did you feel like you could hold on for another 5k?

34:41 What were your thoughts as you crossed the finish line?

35:27 I know with your residency coming yp is going to change things, but did this year change your outlook?

36:45 If you were looking forward ahead to this year is there a plan you would like to see happen?

37:39 What do you see as the vision for the Rebook Group you run with?

39:17 Do you think it will be more of a 10k and marathon group?


Episode 36 with Hehir
Martin Heir on Twitter
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Jan 5, 2021

Welcome to episode 177 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome professional distance runner Noah Droddy to the show. Droddy has a great story of a slightly better than average runner in high school who became an Olympics Trial qualifier. Droddy burst onto the scene in 2016 at the Trials and recently finished second in The Marathon Project. We catch up with Droddy about his preparation for his latest race and what is next for him in 2021.

1:15 How did you get started in running?

2:30 What was it in your senior year that started to change things for you?

3:40 How were your times in your senior year?

4:12 Those are not times that jump off the chart, at what point did you decide that you wanted to run at the next level?

5:35 Did you have success in college as a freshman?

6:49 What was your progress like in college?

8:15 When you were getting ready to graduate college did you expect to continue to run as a professional?

9:28 What do you by you couldn't completely let running go?

10:29 When did you decide you were going to get serious and see what you could do?

11:59 At that point in 2015 was there even talks of the Olympic Trials?

13:00 When did the qualifier for the 10k come?

14:27 That night on the track you kind of became an icon overnight, what was that like?

16:11 When the shutdown happened how was your mindset?

18:08 How long was the process of shutting it down?

19:22 June you started training again, the Marathon Trials were done, did you switch your focus to the 10k?

21:25 Were there any health issues when you came back?

21:55 How was your training leading up to the Marathon Project?

22:43 You ran 2.5 minutes better than your PR, was 2:09 the goal for the race or just stick with the leaders?

24:00 How did you feel in the second half of the race?

25:16 Were there any workouts leading up to the race that had you thinking this could be a big race?

26:28 Do you have any staple workouts that you use every training cycle that you can see how you progress each cycle?

27:36 You mention these breakthroughs become the new benchmark, but do you think that 2:09 is now the benchmark for the US Men's marathon?

29:28 What are your plans after your break?

30:59 What is the status of the Roots Running Group

31:57 Richie is one of the under the radar coaches that probably doesn't get the credit they deserve


Noah on Twitter
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Roots Running Project

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Dec 15, 2020

Welcome to episode 176 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome back Tinman Elite athlete Joey Berriatua to the podcast. Joey was first with us a year and a half ago on episode 123. Joey joined us to talk about where is running is now, recent PR's he has had and we talk about his new passion which is coaching with the Hammer and Axe Training team. Joey has big plans for 2021 including making it to the US Olympics Trial, possibly in more than one event.

1:10 What is new since last spring?

3:09 You started running again in late November?

4:10 You are forced to take 4-months off, what was the hardest part?

5:45 And when you started running, you were only running 5-minutes at a time?

6:54 How good shape did you get in with just swimming?

8:29 How did you manage the swimming, was it based on time?

10:05 You were back up to full volume by February and then March hit. Do you think it could have helped by not forcing yourself to race too quickly?

12:11 How has your training been going the last few months?

13:35 What races have you done since the injury?

15:06 And this month you set a PR in the 5k, how did that race go?

16:54 Do you have any more races on the calendar?

17:45 So the focus now is the Olympic Trials?

18:52 The team itself has grown a lot since we last talked, how has those dynamics played out?

20:10 How did the Hammer and Axe Training start?

22:18 Are any of your athletes local?

23:01 Are most of them high school?

26:25 Have you found this has helped your running?

28:09 What would they get if they work with you?

Instagram: @joeyberriatua
Joey Hammer and Axe Training

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Nov 25, 2020

Welcome to episode 175 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome back Tinman Elite coach Tom Schwartz to the podcast. Tom is working on his doctoral dissertation for exercise science and we talk about that and how you can get involved too. We also catch up with how some of the Tinman team are doing. You can check out Tom's coaching which he uses Final Surge for at Run Fast Coach.

:45 How is everyone holding up?

1:52 You had some guys in Phoenix racing this past weekend, how is the racing going?

3:36 Any more races on the books?

5:00 How has Sam been doing, haven't seen much of him recently?

5:57 Talk to us about your dissertation

10:59 In that example during that 20% are you giving that 48 more speed work?

12:29 Shouldn't the slower one be working on speed more?

13:39 When you are looking at those online calculators about projected race times are they accurate or would they be more accurate with two data points?

17:17 Two kids both ran cross, but one ran over the winter and one did soccer, does this test show you what you need if one wasn't properly trained in the aerobic base for the last few months?

21:21 I have heard of this test with 300/600 would that show you the same thing?

22:33 Where are you at with the dissertation?

24:23 What are you looking for as far as test subjects?

26:46 You mentioned they will run the 1600 and 400 time trial, after that is there further testing, or is that it?

28:43 How many more individuals are you looking for?

Email Tom
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Nov 17, 2020

Welcome to episode 174 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome professional runner Christine Thorn to the program. Four years ago Christine was playing basketball on a scholarship in college. Last year she ran 11th in the Steeplechase at the US National Championships. We talk to Christine about the path she took to get here, the coaching she is involved with, and what she hopes for next year on the track.


1:09 How did you get into running?

4:15 You ran with your high school team in Junior High right?

5:00 Did you run in high school?

5:54 Did you run on the side on college or no just basketball?

6:39 What gave you the thought that you could compete at the D2 level after your basketball career?

7:32 In college you sound like you were reluctant to try the steeple?

11:15 How did you feel coming back to run the 1500 finals after?

12:00 Did you consider yourself more of a cross or track runner?

13:03 When did you think you could compete post-collegiate?

14:58 Was it your college coach that convinced you to keep doing this?

15:29 How did you meet up with coach Jeff Boele?

17:16 15th in the country in D2 is good, but that is a long ways away from someone who will run in the Olympic Trials. How was it mentally getting here?

19:10 Since Corona hit have you done any racing?

20:28 If I remember Jeff's training correctly he does a lot on speed development and sprinting?

21:54 What do the wicket workouts look like?

22:57 Are there any cues in your head you use?

24:00 Have you been staying healthy during the shutdown?

24:35 Is there anything on the calendar?

25:18 You are working on Hammer and Axe, how did that happen?

27:00 We absolutely need more women coaches, who have been your influences?

29:27 Who is your target audience?

31:13 Are you involved in the Hammer and Axe Turkey Trot?

Coaching Page
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Nov 2, 2020
Welcome to episode 173 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome back Tinman Elite athlete Drew Hunter to the program. Drew has been busy this year helping to launch the Hammer and Axe Training site and is currently working on a virtual turkey-trot that has some amazing prizes.


:50 How are you and the team doing?

1:24 What is coming up for races?

2:08 Everyone on the team staying healthy?

2:44 You have had a busy year, want to talk about the new coaching program?

4:25 What is someone getting in the Turkey Trot package?

6:44 XEndurance is around a lot more, what is your relationship with them?

8:37 You get a training plan with this turkey trot right?

10:11 So is each plan designed by someone or is it a collaboration?

11:17 How will this work for someone who this is their first virtual race?

12:56 What type of workouts do you have in your plan?

14:58 They can use this plan on their next 5k race too right?

16:20 Talk some about the Hammer and Axe Training programs

18:29 What is your communications like with the athletes you work with?

20:00 What types of athletes are you working with?

22:34 What is on the road map for the next year?

Hammer and Axe Training
Virtual Turkey Trot
Tinman Elite on Instagram

Oct 28, 2020
Welcome to episode 172 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome coach Mike Hickey. Mike has coached everything from high school runners to professionals like Alexa Efraimson. We talk to Mike about his journey in coaching, his philosophy of the Oregon System and how he trains youth runners.


1:15 How did you get started in running?

6:45 What about those relationships lead you into getting into coaching?

8:34 What was your first coaching job?

10:35 How did your career develop until you met Alexa?

14:04 For a coach hearing she is running 41 seconds for 300 is that like a fast 800 for her?

16:34 You have coached high school before and you have seen those who don't have the natural ability but are willing to work, how do you develop them?

22:20 They are not the most athletic, how do you get them to move better?

26:36 Do you use the Oregon System for your training?

31:00 With the Oregon System layout a week or two

59:40 You said those early years you were developing speed, should we be doing sprinting?

1:05:00 How is Alexa doing?

Coach to Coach on Runner's Space

Oct 16, 2020

Welcome to episode 171 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome back NAZ Elite coach Ben Rosario. A lot has happened with Ben and his team since we last caught up including a new deal between Hoka and NAZ, a couple of new signings of athletes and he has announced the Marathon Project. The Marathon Project is an elite marathon that will be run in December in Chandler Arizona. We get some information on how that came together.

1:15 How is the team dealing with the pandemic?

4:38 What struggles have you encountered?

6:25 Recently you added a couple of new runners, want to tell us about Julia Kohnen

11:28 And you added Tyler Day?

18:15 You are putting on an Elite Marathon in Chandler Arizona?

24:10 Will fans be allowed?

24:49 What type of protocols are in place for Covid-19?

26:06 You have 50 women and 50 men, how did the selection process work?

28:50 Elite athletes are not used to having to pay to enter a race, but this is different right?

32:10 You have renewed your contract with HOKA, it sounds like they are stepping up and supporting runners in a big way.

37:05 Want to talk about the assistant coach search?

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The Marathon Project
Ben on Twitter
NAZ on Twitter

Oct 6, 2020

Welcome to episode 170 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome triathlete and Ironman Triathlon coach Dora Kemecsei to the podcast. The Corona pandemic has taken a toll on the triathlon scene this year, but things are starting to show a sign of opening back up with the first Ironman race going off this past month. We look at what the future holds for the sport and where we go from here.

1:00 How did you get started in triathlons?

4:00 Did you have any biking background before you did your first traithlon?

4:42 How long of a training period did you give yourself before your first Ironman?

5:21 Did you find out during that first one that the biking was the biggest challenge?

6:05 How many Ironman races have you done and when did that lead to coaching?

6:38 How did you go about getting those first clients?

7:20 The last 8 months have probably been a challenge? How has it impacted you?

9:09 What type of advice do you have for someone who keeps getting races canceled?

11:00 What is the state of the racing world in Europe?

12:05 Was everyone excited to finally be racing again?

13:34 Were the transition areas set up differently?

14:18 Do you think having a successful event will help get other events going again?

15:59 You are an Ironman Coach, what type of athletes do you work with?

17:17 If someone is a beginner what would a training plan cycle look like for them to get ready for that first event?

18:18 If you have a runner looking to make the transition what would a week look like?

19:06 Are you focusing on one thing a day or do you mix up your days among the disciplines?

19:53 For a runner starting, how much do you recommend a coach to work on form for swimming?

Dora's Training Plans
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Sep 23, 2020
Welcome to episode 169 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome Olympic swimmer Scott Dickens to the podcast. Scott joins us to talk about FORM, a revolutionary swimming goggle that gives you real-time metrics. Last week Final Surge announced we are now syncing with FORM so we invited Scott on to discuss what FORM is and how it can help you. Through the end of the month, FORM is giving Final Surge listeners a $30 off coupon. Head over to and enter FINALSURGE30 at checkout to save $30.

1:00 How did you get started in swimming?

1:57 When were you in the Olympics

3:19 What events did you swim?

3:40 You now work with FORM, can you tell us what FORM is?

4:40 What are the different metrics you are able to see?

5:29 Can you set the metrics you want to see?

6:15 How can it pick up heart-rate?

7:17 How does the distance work in a pool?

8:30 It would seem like the metics could be a distraction?

9:55 How do you start and stop it?

11:00 If you have a minute between reps you don't need to hit start and stop?

11:53 How is the battery and how quickly will it charge if you forget to charge it?

13:13 What advice do you have to triathletes on using FORM?

14:55 Have you measured how accurate this is in open water for distance?

16:02 How has the integration with Final Surge gone?

FORM on Instagram #Swimwithform Promo code FINALSURGE30
Scott on Instagram

Sep 1, 2020

Welcome to episode 168 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome former Olympian and now the coach at NYRR Roberto Mandje to the show. Roberto talks about how the pandemic is affecting the NYRR and the plan for the 2020 NYC Marathon to be a virtual race. We also talk about the NYRR Coaching Lab where you can get training from their coaches to help you have a successful marathon. Roberto shares a lot of valuable information in this episode.

:54 How you got started in running?

2:22 You ran in the 1500 in the 2004 Olympics?

3:18 What was that Olympic experience like for you representing a smaller country?

5:06 As a former Olympian what were your thoughts after the Olympics were canceled for this year?

6:50 What was your career like from 2004 to the time you joined NYRR

9:42 Could you give us some info besides the NYRR what else are you doing in the community?

11:07 If you are having 60 events throughout the year you guys are very active, so when the shut down happened what was that like to you?

13:02 Explain what is involved with a virtual race for the participant

15:30 Are you seeing people who run the actual course that was intended?

16:40 Can you tell us what the NYRR Coaching Lab is?

18:05 How many different training plans are there for the marathon?

19:00 What are the differences between the 3 plans?

19:55 What will they get with this training plan?

20:38 How do the Zoom calls work?

21:52 What type of topics are covered?

23:00 You have processionals participating in the virtual right?

23:38 What type of interest is there for the mid-packers?

25:00 Where can people register for it?

26:48 Is this the same medal that would have been given out or are they different?

28:58 Have you seen a runner boom from the pandemic?





Aug 25, 2020

Welcome to episode 167 of the Final Surge podcast. Today we welcome back former professional runner turned coach Luke Humphrey. Luke joins us to talk about the last few months of life with Covid for a running coach. We also talk about his new series that will be starting this month that is a 13-week program with training programs, structured workouts, and group meetings for two virtual 5k's. You can head on over to to sign up.

1:15 What have you been doing since everything in the running world has been shut down?

3:53 You have a large coaching business, for them what has it been like to continue with no end in sight?

6:15 Did you find most people set goals to go shorter and faster?

7:08 Have you found your athletes are into the virtual races?

8:05 So did many use this time as a huge base building period?

8:59 Can you imagine that we may not have a spring marathon season?

10:21 Going forward you set up the 2020 5k series, what is that about?

13:35 What is included besides the races?

15:13 What is a structured workout?

16:56 Talk a little more about the weekly webinars

18:55 How long are the training plans leading up to the races?

19:32 Who are the plans geared at?

20:30 Can you give us an example of what a trianing week may look like?

22:05 Are the fast workouts track workouts?

22:37 Will communications be through the Facebook group for the most part?

23:33 How does someone know which plan is best for them?

26:07 What are the long runs like?

27:20 Will long time marathon clients recognize these workouts?


2020 5k Series
Luke Humphrey Website
Luke on Facebook
Luke Training Plans
Luke Humphrey on Youtube

Aug 18, 2020

Welcome to episode 166 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome back Olympian Kim Conley to the show. We catch up with Kim and talk about how she is handling this long period between race and what advice she has for staying motivated.

:45 Where are you with your training?

1:09 When is the last time you raced?

1:29 When is the last time you went this long without a race?

2:30 Do you have anything on the books as a potential?

3:36 Have you decided between the 5k and 10k?

4:20 Back in March when this all broke could you imagine we would be where we are?

5:23 What have you been doing with training since March?

6:19 What are you doing on the track?

7:39 What about the mental side of this?

8:59 What type of encouragement do you have for these high school and college kids losing seasons?

10:05 Have you been doing anything different to take your mind off things?

11:24 Do you feel like you're in really good shape right now?

12:15 Anything different in the training you have been doing?

13:15 If you come out and pop a big-time do you think things will change going forward with training?

14:30 Have you had a training partner?

14:55 You dabbled with the marathon briefly, after the Olympic Trials do you still plan on testing the marathon again in the future?

16:50 With the big base do you feel you could jump in a marathon right now?

17:37 Walk us through a week

18:47 For the average runner who doesn't have a race on the calendar how do you motivate them to keep going?

Kim on Instagram
Kim On Twitter

Aug 3, 2020

Welcome to episode 165 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome back to the show Coach Jay Johnson. Jay has a new book coming out called Consistency is Key. In the book, Jay gives 15 key points on becoming a better runner. The book is easy to get through yet has a wealth of good take-a-ways.

1:02 Great job with the new book Consistency is Key

3:17 The book is great for coaches but very beneficial to the athlete too to reinforce what we say

5:23 I love how you have laid out chapter one and taking two freshmen characters and how they 'transcend yourself' can you talk about that phrase?

8:39 You cannot change genetics, but you can change your capacity for work

12:13 No matter how hard you work and how smart you train there will be a plateau, how do you tell the kids its ok that this happens?

14:53 You talk a lot about the aerobic engine, talk about the importance of consistency for that

20:00 Lydiard is not as well understood when it comes to running fast, it has always been important

22:34 No matter how fast the engine is, if the body isn't strong it will break down, what resources do you have

29:00 One of the concepts is switching gears, how important is that to someone who may be a mid-pack runner?

33:17 Nutrition is an important part of this book, but so is sleeping. When dealing with kids how do you get this point through to the kids?

39:44 My favorite part is the end where you do short blurbs with

Jay's website
Consistency is Key
Jay on Twitter
High School Running Coach

Jul 24, 2020

Welcome to Episode 164 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome Coach Nobby of the "Lydiard Training & Academy" powered by "Five Circles".  Arthur Lydiard is a legendary coach and Nobby got to know Lydiard very well while he was still alive. We talk about the training system and he shares some personal stories about him.

:44 How did you get your start in running and meet Arthur Lydiard

5:52 What is it about Arthur Lydiard that makes him such a legend?

7:06 You spent a year living with him, what was it like being around him all the time?

13:06 At that stage in his life did he spend a lot of time in education and staying up to date with the latest in training?

17:07 Lydiard you were peaking for that one big race a year, does it work as effectively when you have many races a year and not just the one big one?

20:35 What does a 3-month conditioning level look like?

22:19 Easy running is all relative, what does that look like?

25:05 Mark Allen talked about using 180-age, but this sounds like even less

26:10 It is not all long slow work, right?

30:53 What about a new or younger runner, how do you build up that base because of the long miles he has?

34:38 What are the other phases of Lydiard training after base?

39:44 Running Wizard is all Lydiard Training Plans?

42:22 You have three programs, what are the differences?

46:36 How many weeks are these plans?

47:31 How similar is the training between running distances?

Newsletter -


Jul 7, 2020

Welcome to episode 163 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome Marc Waxman of 113 Enterprises to talk about Chi Running and specifically Chi for high school kids. Chi has an upcoming virtual clinic designed for high school athletes to get the most out of their program.

:58 When did you get involved in running?

3:22 What was the most you had run before you decided to train for that marathon?

5:05 How did the transition to Chi happen?

7:32 How did that lead you to become a coach?

9:16 In what way has Chi had a positive impact?

10:57 What are some of the basic concepts that help prevent injuries?

13:29 You mentioned you used Final Surge and Hanson, how did you get involved with Hanson training?

15:52 Because of the times we are going through right now what are you guys working on to combat that lack of groups?

18:28 So what is the background of the virtual classes for student-athletes?

22:52 Are these plans predesigned training plans?

25:43 Is there anything specific you do with student-athletes vs adult runners?

27:43 Is there a certain type of athlete that could most benefit from Chi training?

29:00 Jay Johnson has a new book coming called Consistency is Key, isn't that what it is all about, training consistently?

29:32 Is this a good program for coaches to teach their athletes?

30:38 When do the classes start?


Chi Running
Marc 113 Enterprises

Jun 12, 2020

Welcome to episode 162 of the Final Surge Podcast. Every spring the track world watches as high school boys chase the elusive sub-4 minute mile club. This year with the quarantine lockdown that chase looked more elusive than ever. In late May a group of elite runners got together for the Quarantine Clasico. In that race Leo Daschbach unleashed a 56 second last 400 to become the 11th American high school boy to break 4. We talk to Leo's coach Dave Montgomery about his career and that race.

1:10 How did you get started in running?

3:36 Leo ran a 4:44 1600 which is good for a Freshman, but not what points to a sub-4 miler someday.

5:54 With his interactions with other kids Leo seems like such a good kid

6:42 Did he run before he was a Freshman or just soccer?

8:14 Was it the Sophmore year that you really saw the potential?

11:25 Some kids are great at the 800 and some are great at the 5k, not many have the range he does. Is that something you try to develop?

12:30 He had a great cross country season obviously, was there talk of chasing 4 at the time?

14:00 Where is he committed to college?

15:23 At the point it was clear there was not going to be a season did he ever back off?

17:15 During cross at Desert Twilight he was far enough behind Cole with 600 to go I didn't think he had a shot, but he unleashed a kick that was amazing.

19:14 When did the idea for the Quarantine race come about?

21:33 Pick a week 3-4 weeks out, what did a week of training look like?

23:42 Was 10-miles the typical long run?

24:32 Do you run by time or miles?

25:06 Things looked good going into the race, what was your conversation before the race?

27:14 With 250 left to go he is in a group of 3 of the best runners in the country and he just takes off from the group

28:28 Knowing he finished with a 56.6 do you think he could have gone even faster?

29:07 What do you think his ceiling is when he goes off to college?

30:50 What do you think his race will be in college?

32:34 What is your situation right now, how are you dealing with what is going on?

Dave on Twitter
Dave on Facebook
Dave's Email

May 30, 2020

Welcome to episode 161 of the Final Surge Podcast. This week we do something different. We talk to 5 successful high school coaches from 5 different parts of the country about this summer of uncertainty. We get their advice on how they are dealing with the current environment and not knowing what the upcoming season will be like.

First I talked to Joan and Marc Hunter of Loudon Valley in Virginia. Next I had on Jonathan Dalby of Mountain Vista in Colorado. Following Dalby I talked to Doug Petrick of USC in Pennsylvania. Then Doug Soles of Great Oak in California joins us before we end with Jonathan O'Malley of Sandburg High in Illinois.

:57 Joan and Marc Hunter of

13:45 Jonathan Dalby

24:16 Doug Petrick

38:12 Doug Soles

48:50 Jonathan O'Malley

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