Final Surge Podcast

In the Final Surge Podcast, we interview coaches, athletes authors, and endurance industry experts to help you train with a purpose.
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Oct 28, 2020
Welcome to episode 172 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome coach Mike Hickey. Mike has coached everything from high school runners to professionals like Alexa Efraimson. We talk to Mike about his journey in coaching, his philosophy of the Oregon System and how he trains youth runners.


1:15 How did you get started in running?

6:45 What about those relationships lead you into getting into coaching?

8:34 What was your first coaching job?

10:35 How did your career develop until you met Alexa?

14:04 For a coach hearing she is running 41 seconds for 300 is that like a fast 800 for her?

16:34 You have coached high school before and you have seen those who don't have the natural ability but are willing to work, how do you develop them?

22:20 They are not the most athletic, how do you get them to move better?

26:36 Do you use the Oregon System for your training?

31:00 With the Oregon System layout a week or two

59:40 You said those early years you were developing speed, should we be doing sprinting?

1:05:00 How is Alexa doing?

Coach to Coach on Runner's Space

Oct 16, 2020

Welcome to episode 171 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome back NAZ Elite coach Ben Rosario. A lot has happened with Ben and his team since we last caught up including a new deal between Hoka and NAZ, a couple of new signings of athletes and he has announced the Marathon Project. The Marathon Project is an elite marathon that will be run in December in Chandler Arizona. We get some information on how that came together.

1:15 How is the team dealing with the pandemic?

4:38 What struggles have you encountered?

6:25 Recently you added a couple of new runners, want to tell us about Julia Kohnen

11:28 And you added Tyler Day?

18:15 You are putting on an Elite Marathon in Chandler Arizona?

24:10 Will fans be allowed?

24:49 What type of protocols are in place for Covid-19?

26:06 You have 50 women and 50 men, how did the selection process work?

28:50 Elite athletes are not used to having to pay to enter a race, but this is different right?

32:10 You have renewed your contract with HOKA, it sounds like they are stepping up and supporting runners in a big way.

37:05 Want to talk about the assistant coach search?

NAZ Website
NAZ Running Logs
The Marathon Project
Ben on Twitter
NAZ on Twitter

Oct 6, 2020

Welcome to episode 170 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome triathlete and Ironman Triathlon coach Dora Kemecsei to the podcast. The Corona pandemic has taken a toll on the triathlon scene this year, but things are starting to show a sign of opening back up with the first Ironman race going off this past month. We look at what the future holds for the sport and where we go from here.

1:00 How did you get started in triathlons?

4:00 Did you have any biking background before you did your first traithlon?

4:42 How long of a training period did you give yourself before your first Ironman?

5:21 Did you find out during that first one that the biking was the biggest challenge?

6:05 How many Ironman races have you done and when did that lead to coaching?

6:38 How did you go about getting those first clients?

7:20 The last 8 months have probably been a challenge? How has it impacted you?

9:09 What type of advice do you have for someone who keeps getting races canceled?

11:00 What is the state of the racing world in Europe?

12:05 Was everyone excited to finally be racing again?

13:34 Were the transition areas set up differently?

14:18 Do you think having a successful event will help get other events going again?

15:59 You are an Ironman Coach, what type of athletes do you work with?

17:17 If someone is a beginner what would a training plan cycle look like for them to get ready for that first event?

18:18 If you have a runner looking to make the transition what would a week look like?

19:06 Are you focusing on one thing a day or do you mix up your days among the disciplines?

19:53 For a runner starting, how much do you recommend a coach to work on form for swimming?

Dora's Training Plans
Dora on Instagram
Dora's website

Sep 23, 2020
Welcome to episode 169 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome Olympic swimmer Scott Dickens to the podcast. Scott joins us to talk about FORM, a revolutionary swimming goggle that gives you real-time metrics. Last week Final Surge announced we are now syncing with FORM so we invited Scott on to discuss what FORM is and how it can help you. Through the end of the month, FORM is giving Final Surge listeners a $30 off coupon. Head over to and enter FINALSURGE30 at checkout to save $30.

1:00 How did you get started in swimming?

1:57 When were you in the Olympics

3:19 What events did you swim?

3:40 You now work with FORM, can you tell us what FORM is?

4:40 What are the different metrics you are able to see?

5:29 Can you set the metrics you want to see?

6:15 How can it pick up heart-rate?

7:17 How does the distance work in a pool?

8:30 It would seem like the metics could be a distraction?

9:55 How do you start and stop it?

11:00 If you have a minute between reps you don't need to hit start and stop?

11:53 How is the battery and how quickly will it charge if you forget to charge it?

13:13 What advice do you have to triathletes on using FORM?

14:55 Have you measured how accurate this is in open water for distance?

16:02 How has the integration with Final Surge gone?

FORM on Instagram #Swimwithform Promo code FINALSURGE30
Scott on Instagram

Sep 1, 2020

Welcome to episode 168 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome former Olympian and now the coach at NYRR Roberto Mandje to the show. Roberto talks about how the pandemic is affecting the NYRR and the plan for the 2020 NYC Marathon to be a virtual race. We also talk about the NYRR Coaching Lab where you can get training from their coaches to help you have a successful marathon. Roberto shares a lot of valuable information in this episode.

:54 How you got started in running?

2:22 You ran in the 1500 in the 2004 Olympics?

3:18 What was that Olympic experience like for you representing a smaller country?

5:06 As a former Olympian what were your thoughts after the Olympics were canceled for this year?

6:50 What was your career like from 2004 to the time you joined NYRR

9:42 Could you give us some info besides the NYRR what else are you doing in the community?

11:07 If you are having 60 events throughout the year you guys are very active, so when the shut down happened what was that like to you?

13:02 Explain what is involved with a virtual race for the participant

15:30 Are you seeing people who run the actual course that was intended?

16:40 Can you tell us what the NYRR Coaching Lab is?

18:05 How many different training plans are there for the marathon?

19:00 What are the differences between the 3 plans?

19:55 What will they get with this training plan?

20:38 How do the Zoom calls work?

21:52 What type of topics are covered?

23:00 You have processionals participating in the virtual right?

23:38 What type of interest is there for the mid-packers?

25:00 Where can people register for it?

26:48 Is this the same medal that would have been given out or are they different?

28:58 Have you seen a runner boom from the pandemic?





Aug 25, 2020

Welcome to episode 167 of the Final Surge podcast. Today we welcome back former professional runner turned coach Luke Humphrey. Luke joins us to talk about the last few months of life with Covid for a running coach. We also talk about his new series that will be starting this month that is a 13-week program with training programs, structured workouts, and group meetings for two virtual 5k's. You can head on over to to sign up.

1:15 What have you been doing since everything in the running world has been shut down?

3:53 You have a large coaching business, for them what has it been like to continue with no end in sight?

6:15 Did you find most people set goals to go shorter and faster?

7:08 Have you found your athletes are into the virtual races?

8:05 So did many use this time as a huge base building period?

8:59 Can you imagine that we may not have a spring marathon season?

10:21 Going forward you set up the 2020 5k series, what is that about?

13:35 What is included besides the races?

15:13 What is a structured workout?

16:56 Talk a little more about the weekly webinars

18:55 How long are the training plans leading up to the races?

19:32 Who are the plans geared at?

20:30 Can you give us an example of what a trianing week may look like?

22:05 Are the fast workouts track workouts?

22:37 Will communications be through the Facebook group for the most part?

23:33 How does someone know which plan is best for them?

26:07 What are the long runs like?

27:20 Will long time marathon clients recognize these workouts?


2020 5k Series
Luke Humphrey Website
Luke on Facebook
Luke Training Plans
Luke Humphrey on Youtube

Aug 18, 2020

Welcome to episode 166 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome back Olympian Kim Conley to the show. We catch up with Kim and talk about how she is handling this long period between race and what advice she has for staying motivated.

:45 Where are you with your training?

1:09 When is the last time you raced?

1:29 When is the last time you went this long without a race?

2:30 Do you have anything on the books as a potential?

3:36 Have you decided between the 5k and 10k?

4:20 Back in March when this all broke could you imagine we would be where we are?

5:23 What have you been doing with training since March?

6:19 What are you doing on the track?

7:39 What about the mental side of this?

8:59 What type of encouragement do you have for these high school and college kids losing seasons?

10:05 Have you been doing anything different to take your mind off things?

11:24 Do you feel like you're in really good shape right now?

12:15 Anything different in the training you have been doing?

13:15 If you come out and pop a big-time do you think things will change going forward with training?

14:30 Have you had a training partner?

14:55 You dabbled with the marathon briefly, after the Olympic Trials do you still plan on testing the marathon again in the future?

16:50 With the big base do you feel you could jump in a marathon right now?

17:37 Walk us through a week

18:47 For the average runner who doesn't have a race on the calendar how do you motivate them to keep going?

Kim on Instagram
Kim On Twitter

Aug 3, 2020

Welcome to episode 165 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome back to the show Coach Jay Johnson. Jay has a new book coming out called Consistency is Key. In the book, Jay gives 15 key points on becoming a better runner. The book is easy to get through yet has a wealth of good take-a-ways.

1:02 Great job with the new book Consistency is Key

3:17 The book is great for coaches but very beneficial to the athlete too to reinforce what we say

5:23 I love how you have laid out chapter one and taking two freshmen characters and how they 'transcend yourself' can you talk about that phrase?

8:39 You cannot change genetics, but you can change your capacity for work

12:13 No matter how hard you work and how smart you train there will be a plateau, how do you tell the kids its ok that this happens?

14:53 You talk a lot about the aerobic engine, talk about the importance of consistency for that

20:00 Lydiard is not as well understood when it comes to running fast, it has always been important

22:34 No matter how fast the engine is, if the body isn't strong it will break down, what resources do you have

29:00 One of the concepts is switching gears, how important is that to someone who may be a mid-pack runner?

33:17 Nutrition is an important part of this book, but so is sleeping. When dealing with kids how do you get this point through to the kids?

39:44 My favorite part is the end where you do short blurbs with

Jay's website
Consistency is Key
Jay on Twitter
High School Running Coach

Jul 24, 2020

Welcome to Episode 164 of the Final Surge Podcast where we welcome Coach Nobby of the "Lydiard Training & Academy" powered by "Five Circles".  Arthur Lydiard is a legendary coach and Nobby got to know Lydiard very well while he was still alive. We talk about the training system and he shares some personal stories about him.

:44 How did you get your start in running and meet Arthur Lydiard

5:52 What is it about Arthur Lydiard that makes him such a legend?

7:06 You spent a year living with him, what was it like being around him all the time?

13:06 At that stage in his life did he spend a lot of time in education and staying up to date with the latest in training?

17:07 Lydiard you were peaking for that one big race a year, does it work as effectively when you have many races a year and not just the one big one?

20:35 What does a 3-month conditioning level look like?

22:19 Easy running is all relative, what does that look like?

25:05 Mark Allen talked about using 180-age, but this sounds like even less

26:10 It is not all long slow work, right?

30:53 What about a new or younger runner, how do you build up that base because of the long miles he has?

34:38 What are the other phases of Lydiard training after base?

39:44 Running Wizard is all Lydiard Training Plans?

42:22 You have three programs, what are the differences?

46:36 How many weeks are these plans?

47:31 How similar is the training between running distances?

Newsletter -


Jul 7, 2020

Welcome to episode 163 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome Marc Waxman of 113 Enterprises to talk about Chi Running and specifically Chi for high school kids. Chi has an upcoming virtual clinic designed for high school athletes to get the most out of their program.

:58 When did you get involved in running?

3:22 What was the most you had run before you decided to train for that marathon?

5:05 How did the transition to Chi happen?

7:32 How did that lead you to become a coach?

9:16 In what way has Chi had a positive impact?

10:57 What are some of the basic concepts that help prevent injuries?

13:29 You mentioned you used Final Surge and Hanson, how did you get involved with Hanson training?

15:52 Because of the times we are going through right now what are you guys working on to combat that lack of groups?

18:28 So what is the background of the virtual classes for student-athletes?

22:52 Are these plans predesigned training plans?

25:43 Is there anything specific you do with student-athletes vs adult runners?

27:43 Is there a certain type of athlete that could most benefit from Chi training?

29:00 Jay Johnson has a new book coming called Consistency is Key, isn't that what it is all about, training consistently?

29:32 Is this a good program for coaches to teach their athletes?

30:38 When do the classes start?


Chi Running
Marc 113 Enterprises

Jun 12, 2020

Welcome to episode 162 of the Final Surge Podcast. Every spring the track world watches as high school boys chase the elusive sub-4 minute mile club. This year with the quarantine lockdown that chase looked more elusive than ever. In late May a group of elite runners got together for the Quarantine Clasico. In that race Leo Daschbach unleashed a 56 second last 400 to become the 11th American high school boy to break 4. We talk to Leo's coach Dave Montgomery about his career and that race.

1:10 How did you get started in running?

3:36 Leo ran a 4:44 1600 which is good for a Freshman, but not what points to a sub-4 miler someday.

5:54 With his interactions with other kids Leo seems like such a good kid

6:42 Did he run before he was a Freshman or just soccer?

8:14 Was it the Sophmore year that you really saw the potential?

11:25 Some kids are great at the 800 and some are great at the 5k, not many have the range he does. Is that something you try to develop?

12:30 He had a great cross country season obviously, was there talk of chasing 4 at the time?

14:00 Where is he committed to college?

15:23 At the point it was clear there was not going to be a season did he ever back off?

17:15 During cross at Desert Twilight he was far enough behind Cole with 600 to go I didn't think he had a shot, but he unleashed a kick that was amazing.

19:14 When did the idea for the Quarantine race come about?

21:33 Pick a week 3-4 weeks out, what did a week of training look like?

23:42 Was 10-miles the typical long run?

24:32 Do you run by time or miles?

25:06 Things looked good going into the race, what was your conversation before the race?

27:14 With 250 left to go he is in a group of 3 of the best runners in the country and he just takes off from the group

28:28 Knowing he finished with a 56.6 do you think he could have gone even faster?

29:07 What do you think his ceiling is when he goes off to college?

30:50 What do you think his race will be in college?

32:34 What is your situation right now, how are you dealing with what is going on?

Dave on Twitter
Dave on Facebook
Dave's Email

May 30, 2020

Welcome to episode 161 of the Final Surge Podcast. This week we do something different. We talk to 5 successful high school coaches from 5 different parts of the country about this summer of uncertainty. We get their advice on how they are dealing with the current environment and not knowing what the upcoming season will be like.

First I talked to Joan and Marc Hunter of Loudon Valley in Virginia. Next I had on Jonathan Dalby of Mountain Vista in Colorado. Following Dalby I talked to Doug Petrick of USC in Pennsylvania. Then Doug Soles of Great Oak in California joins us before we end with Jonathan O'Malley of Sandburg High in Illinois.

:57 Joan and Marc Hunter of

13:45 Jonathan Dalby

24:16 Doug Petrick

38:12 Doug Soles

48:50 Jonathan O'Malley

May 22, 2020

Welcome to Episode 160 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome Chris Twiggs to the podcast. Chris is a long time Final Surge user and an even longer coach with Jeff Galloway. Some know Galloway for from his spot on the US Olympics Team, some know him for his writing in Sports Illustrated, but most know him as the Run-Walk-Run Coach. We talk to Christ about the program, how it can help keep you healthy and running and how fast did Galloway actually do a marathon using this method. Also head over to to see the awesome virtual racing series Galloway has going.

1:14 How did you get started in running?

4:20 What about your first marathon training plan didn't work for you?

7:40 Who is Jeff Galloway?

10:10 What is run-walk-run and how did Jeff come up with the concept?

12:55 When did Jeff run a 2:16 Marathon using Run/Walk?

14:14 Is there research that shows how the walk breaks are effective?

15:44 What is the magic mile and how does that work?

18:25 Wouldn't the aerobic development be a factor in the magic mile accuracy?

20:37 Is run-walk-run only for beginners, are more experienced runners more hesitant?

28:59 Can triathletes use it?

26:30 How did your Galloway Training Groups get started?

27:40 How many cities have a program director right now?

29:00 You mentioned you guys run Disney every year. Is there a Galloway/Disney training connection.  

30:37 You were one of really early users FS?

35:35 Can you tell us about your training plans that are for sale on Final Surge and the difference between those and your custom plans?

39:09 Tell us about this new Retro Run Half Marathon series using the new Final Surge Virtual Racing platform.  I hear there is the opportunity to collect different medals and also get a Galloway training plan in conjunction with the race.

42:10 If an ultra runner wanted to run 4 back to back half marathons would that count?

Final Surge round, 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite endurance/running book? -  Galloway's Book on Running and My Best Race
Current trainers you are wearing? -  Hoka Clifton and Wave Riders
Favorite race? – Hard Rock 100 miler
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? – BCAA
Your favorite workout – Mind of the Marathoner

Magic Mile Calculator
Galloway Training Plans
Virtual Retro Run Series

May 7, 2020

In honor of Ameican superstar distance runner Dathan Ritzenhein retiring today, we are releasing the last podcast we did with him as our best of show. This interview with him was from the fall of 2019 when we talked about American marathon racing, his running career, and his coaching. 

Apr 24, 2020

Welcome to episode 159 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome coach and performance lab expert Benjamin Tilus to the show. Ben is the host of the XLR8 Podcast and does work with the XLR8 Performance Lab in Iowa. We talk about how you can take your threshold and VO2 Max numbers and make them work for you.

:55 How did you get started in running?

4:10 Where did you run in college?

5:30 How did you get into coaching?

11:11 You are still coaching high school?

12:20 What is XLR8 Performance Lab?

16:54 Does that $60 get you just the VO2 test?

19:07 Some people are getting these results from their watch, how accurate are those?

21:14 Do you bring your team in or do you just offer it as a service?

22:18 What are you doing with the information you are getting to benefit the athlete?

26:39 You give them paces for training?

29:06 Is one of the online running pace calculators better than others?

34:05 What are you doing now with your athletes during the shutdown?

39:16 Are your tracks open?

40:45 How did the XLR8 Podcast come about?

44:32 What is one guest you have had on that you took a lot out of it?

49:14 What if someone from another state is interested in getting tested can they reach out for other resources?

XLR8 Website
XLR8 Twitter

Apr 17, 2020

Welcome to episode 158 of the Final Surge Podcast. We welcome back the most downloaded guest of all time, Coach Tom 'Tinman' Schwartz. We catch up on a few things including how his team is dealing with the current lockdown situation, what teams should be doing now to get ready for the fall season and we discuss the new training plans he has released which you can find on Final Surge.

1:00 How are you holding up with the Covid-19 epidemic?

2:35 You used to coach from a distance for years so that must help?

2:55 Everyone healthy?

4:04 We had a group of high school coaches talking about the long-distance until cross, so how do you plan your time?

6:21 Most programs will take 10-14 days, would you recommend they do it now?

13:53 You just recently released a couple of training plans on Final Surge

24:04 Your buildup plan you are doing workouts week one

30:06 So you a fan of speed ladders?

31:59 The other training plan is a longer non-high school buildup

33:51 With the summer training plan could you use that during cross country season too?

37:20 When you are talking about taking a break you said people make the mistake of taking two weeks off

42:10 Talk about your calculator and how people should use it

49:35 I use the calculator often but I have used the 1600 a lot for paces

Running Calculator
Training Plans
Tom on Instagram

Apr 10, 2020

Welcome to episode 157 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome Amanda Brooks. Amanda is a coach, but you probably know here from her running blog Run To The Finish. Amanda is one of the most successful running bloggers of all time. We talk to her about her blog, about coaching athletes, how she is coping with the stay at home orders and we discuss her new book.

:59 How are you holding up during these stay at home orders?

1:28 How did you get started in running?

2:40 Did that conversation about being awkward in running, did that not lead you to track or anything?

3:19 Did you have the flexibility issues when you ran your first half marathon?

4:14 What happened after your first race?

5:16 The next year how did you come up with a training plan?

6:06 How did the blog develop?

7:14 2007 Everyone was getting a blog, was Run To The Finish the first blog?

7:47 When did you start getting involved in coaching?

8:44 You went 5 years before you made the blog your career, how did you stay with it that long?

10:20 The running blog community was a great community early on, where were some of your early inspirations?

11:50 When you decided you were going to make this a career what was the hardest obstacle?

12:34 How has viewership changed with social media?

13:36 How many blog posts do you have?

13:58 What is your most popular post?

14:17 Is the half marathon your distance you like?

14:55 During the quarantine how had viewership changed?

15:34 I see a lot more people in the day, do you think there are more out there running?

16:27 Are your coaching clients more experienced or newbies?

17:12 What are their goals?

17:49 When you start working with a client how do you start and come up with a gameplan?

19:16 What is the best way you like to work with new clients? What type of plans are there?

21:06 New runners and coaches

22:32 What are the most common injury issues?

24:28 What do you do with low heart rate training?

25:20 How does the 4 months of low heart rate running work?

27:40 How strict are you with the heart rate

28:04 If you have someone been running for a few years how hard is it for them to not get discouraged?

29:18 What do you recommend for heart rate monitors?

31:28 That Vo2 max on a watch can be off by a lot

32:02 What do you do for weak hips?

33:16 How are you using Final Surge?

34:42 Tell us about the new book

36:18 Did the 13 years of writing for the website give you most of the content, or is there all new material?

37:00 Will there still be a book tour?

Final Surge round, 5 questions in under a minute

Favorite endurance/running book? -  80/20
Current trainers you are wearing? -   Nike Epic React
Favorite race? – Philly Marathon
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? – Almand butter and Cheerios
Your favorite workout – Long Run

Amanda Brooks on Twitter
Run To The Finish Book

Apr 2, 2020

Welcome to episode 156 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome back Tinman Elite runner Drew Hunter. Drew is coming off the first real injury of his running career. We talk about the setback and what that was like for him. We then get into the current Covid-19 situation and how that has impacted him and his team. Drew has some words of encouragement for everyone out there listening and some advice for those high school kids who lost their track season.

:54 How are you feeling after your first real injury?

3:28 Didn't the injury come in the last 200 meters of the race?

5:40 What was the hardest part of dealing with your first injury, was it physical or mental?

7:45 You mentioned you had a race on the calendar, what was that race?

8:47 How are you and your teammates dealing with not knowing when that next race is going to come?

11:56 You mentioned you looked at why you got injured, is there anything that you are doing differently now?

14:47 Have you talked about how you don't know when the next race is so you are going to just stay in a base training mode now?

16:08 Many states are shutting down their spring sports so the track season is done before it really gets going, what would you tell a kid on how to stay motivated?

19:00 What are you doing as a team to keep your sanity during this time of social distancing?

24:46 For your high school fan who may struggle to do the next workout what types of words of encouragement do you have?

26:10 When does the next round of Tinman gear drop?

27:13 What are you guys working on right now and filming?

28:28 So you have your own videographer now?

29:04 Where is the best place for people to follow this content?


Tinman Website
Drew Twitter

Mar 20, 2020

Welcome to episode 155 of the Final Surge Podcast. Today we welcome high school coach Doug Petrick to the podcast. Doug has built one of the most successful teams in western Pennsylvania. Doug does a presentation called the 5 principles that improved our distance program. We talk about those five things and how he is dealing with current Corona Virus disruption. 


5 Principles That Improved Our Distance Program

  1. Minutes over miles
  2. Speed year around (define speed work)
  3. Running by feel
  4. athletic movements
  5. Communicating and learning

Final Surge round, 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite endurance/running book? -  Running with Buffalos
Current trainers you are wearing? -   Brooks Ghost
Favorite race? – 5k
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? – Peanut butter and Jelly
Your favorite workout – Fartlek

Doug on Twitter
Clinic On Twitter

Mar 12, 2020

Welcome to episode 154 of the Final Surge Podcast where today we welcome Olympian Aliphine Tuliamuk. Aliphine was a surprise to some, but she ran the Olympic Marathon Trials in Atlanta fully expecting to make the team. We talked to her about her amazing story of growing up in Kenya, moving to the United States and the stress fracture that set her back last summer. Also make sure you check out the story of her and her NAZ Elite teammates from her coaches perspective at 

1:30 How did you get started in distance running?

2:27 There is that legend that Kenyan kids all run to school 2 miles each way, so that was true for you?

3:01 How old were you when you started this?

3:30 When did you start competing in school against others?

4:09 In 3rd grade when you started competing did you realize you had a natural talent?

5:01 We know if you watch TV we see many Kenyans, so we may think all Kenyans run, how is it really?

6:34 What age did you come to America?

8:40 When you first came over how was the adjustment?

11:04 How did your college career develop?

14:12 In 2011 did you decide you wanted to keep running after college?

15:00 How did you hook up with NAZ Elite?

17:18 Flagstaff is a running haven 

18:22 We see how close you all appear on social media, is it really that close?

19:10 In 2019 you had a stress fracture?

20:32 Did you have concerns about it impacting you making the team?

21:50 Did you get in any training at all those 8 weeks down?

23:14 You had a really short build-up to NYC?

24:08 Did you take the same downtime after NYC?

24:40 Talk about the build-up to the trails and working with the team?

26:15 Was there a plan to work together?

27:45 It was a much different race than the men's race with any one of the 20 in the pack making the team

29:02 Going into the race Kellyn was getting the most attention, was there any one workout that you nailed it and knew you were going to be a contender?  

32:12 Did you like flying under the radar?

32:57 What made you go at the point you did?

34:00 Did you and Molly run together in training?

34:26 Did you talk to your teammates about making the move?

35:08 At what point did you know you were going to make the team?

37:04 How many conversations happen over 2.5 hours?

38:56 What did you think of the course?

39:25 During the first half did you plan to stay behind because of the wind?

40:03 When did you know you were going to win?

40:33 What is that feeling of being an Olympian?

42:00 Now that is over have you sat down and planned out the next few months?

43:43 One thing with the marathon, you know it is ruthless and anything can happen on any day?

44:46 Tell me about those beanies

Aliphine Beanies
Aliphine Training 
NAZ Elite Training
Aliphine Twitter
Aliphine Instagram




Mar 6, 2020

Welcome to episode 153 of the Final Surge Podcast. Last week we had on a couple of experts to talk about the US Olympics Marathon Trial. On the men's side, despite a strong Chicago Marathon, Jake Riley did not get much attention. Many casual marathon observers did not even know the name. Jake had to take three years off racing after the 2016 trials because of injury. This unsponsored athlete made a comeback that had the running world talking and took home a second-place and a place on the Olympic team. Today, meet Jake Riley.

1:44 When did you start running?

6:45 Talk about your very successful career at Stanford

7:40 Having someone in front of you helps push you right?

9:06 Did you know when you were at Standford that running was something you wanted to do post-college?

10:37 You ran for Hanson out of college?

11:04 You ended up getting a long injury, when did that happen?

13:23 Was there any doubt during those three years that your running career may be done?

15:53 When did you move to Boulder and start working with Lee Troope?

16:55 Tell us about that first race back after three full years off

18:38 At that time in 2019 did you feel at that time after three years you could even make it back to the trials?

20:03 You ran a 2:10 at Chicago, was that your first marathon back?

21:23 How did you get a top ten in Chicago and come out unsponsored?

24:58 There were a lot of previews written, but not much of a mention of your name, how did you feel going in?

26:35 There was an early breakaway, did you go in to the race with a plan to be ready for the breakaway?

29:57 When Rupp goes out at 15 miles what was the mood of the group when that happened?

32:17 What did you think of the course?

33:30 At mile 19/20 you were still a minute back, was there concern you let them get away to far?

36:14 When you are coming up on then, did you think Korir was maybe a lock for the team and you were racing Abdi for the third spot?

38:10 Why did you grab the flag with 1/4 of a mile to go with two chasing you?

39:51 How does it feel to be an Olympian?

41:36 How much time are you giving yourself off?

43:10 Tokyo is a flatter course, how are you going to change your training?

Jake on Twitter
Jake on Instagram


Feb 27, 2020

Welcome to episode 152 of the Final Surge Podcast. This episode is all about the upcoming USA Men and Women's Olympic Marathon Trials. In the first half of this episode, I have Mario Fraioli joining me to talk about the men's race. Then in the second half, Erin Strout of Women's Running joins me to talk about the women's race. We talk about some of the favorites, what race strategies to expect and more. 

Mario Fraioli Joins us to talk about the men's race, the course and what to expect

Mario Coaching Website 
Morning Shakeout
Mario on Twitter
Mario on Instagram

Erin Strout joins us to talk about the women's race and go over the favorites
Erin on Twitter
Erin on Instagram
Women's Running

Bio of all the athletes participating

Feb 14, 2020

Welcome to episode 151 of the Final Surge Podcast. We welcome in Hollie Sick who runs the popular blog Fueled By Lolz. Hollie is a collegiate swimmer turned runner and has worked in a running store for the last six years. We talk about several topics including the new World Athletic ruling on race shoes. Don't forget Final Surge is a great coaching platform and always free for athletes.

1:27 How you got involved in athletics and how that lead to running?

5:14 What was running at a D3 college like?

8:29 You went from doing 4 hours a day swimming to 90 minutes of running practice, what were some of the differences between the swim and run training?

9:36 How did that college running career go?

11:10 Did you jump in doing what others were doing or did your coach bring you along slowly?

12:14 Didn't you used to run in Newton's?

13:04 What was the transition like from college to post-collegiate running?

14:48 With the swimming and running background, what about triathlon?

16:00 How long have you been working at a shoe store?

16:47 What have you noticed in changes in the running shoe world in the last six years?

18:33 Didn't Hoka come out in the height of the minimalist shoes

19:12 We have seen what Nike is doing since 2016, talk about the carbon fiber shoe

20:32 Do they not hold up as long?

21:40 So they should be used for races only for the most part?

22:22 What other carbon fiber shoes are there out there?

25:32 Shoes need to now be out on the market for 4 months, do you think Brooks and Saucony will be out in time for end of April?

27:20 How do you see the shoe market changing going forward?

28:29 When did you start the blog Fueled by LOLz

29:26 Everyone had a running blog a decade ago, you are one of few still going? How many posts do you have?

Final Surge round, 5 questions in under a minute
Favorite endurance/running book? -  Running: A Love Story
Current trainers you are wearing? -  Hoka and New Balance
Favorite race? – Shamrock 1/2 Marathon
Favorite recovery meal or recovery drink? – Pancakes
Your favorite workout – 400m repeats


Blog Fueled By Lolz
Hollie on Twitter
Hollie on Instagram



Jan 30, 2020

Episode 150: Welcome to episode 150 of the Final Surge Podcast where coach and podcast host Jonathan Marcus joins us to talk about speed. In episode 145 we had Tony Holler on to talk about Feed The Cats and developing speed. Today Jonathan Marcus joins us to discuss how exactly to implement that for endurance athletes. 


:57 What is new with Jonathan Marcus in the last two years?

3:58 Did you just take on too much?

7:00 You put out a tweet last August that caused a lot of uproar..

It is impossible to teach an athlete to ‘run fast when tired.’

The very nature of being in a state of fatigue negates the ability to run fast — the skill of speed is only learned when fresh.

Therefore, doing a tempo run followed by ‘fast’ 200s is, in fact, a useless exercise. 

  9:00 If you take a body and put it through stress then allow it proper recovery time doesn't it make the body stronger?

12:04 I guess it depends on some factors like the workload, doesn't it depend on the extent of the tempo run?

17:03 We are talking about speed and getting it in fresh, but if I am working on maximum speed, we are probably not running flying 40's and 60's. But the 200's are not for pure top-end speed.

22:00 Are there any published documents on this you would recommend reading?

26:09 Our audience is mostly high school coaches and age group runners, not mostly elite type runners listening. You had on Tony Holler and we had Tony on the same week as you. Everyone likes the idea of speed, but how do we implement that for endurance athletes

36:43 On that week Monday are you talking about 3 flying 40's or are you talking about 5x300 type speed work?

44:51 This is where endurance is different, you are doing more work when Tony is done after those 30's

48:28 Would you come back on Friday and get in some 3x30's to get in a little more speed work?

53:43 You are talking to a distance coach and we are coming into track season and you have a freshman coming in who may want to break 5:20 and a senior trying to break a sub-4:10, when you are working with the freshman are you working with more speed as a percentage or endurance?

1:04:05 The X-Factor Drills are a great progression, when do you work them into a workout day?

Jonathan on Twitter
High Performance West

Jan 17, 2020

Welcome to episode 149 of the Final Surge Podcast. In this episode, we welcome Marc Bloom to the show to talk about his new book Amazing Racers. Anyone who follows high school running knows that Fayetville Manlius is an amazing story. Their girl's team won the Nike National XC Championship 11 of the first 12 years they were there, coming in second the one year they didn't win. And the boys team, while only winning one national championship, has been one of the 22 team to qualify for the national championship 13 of the 15 years the race has been around. We talk to Mark about how a small school in upstate New York has been able to be so dominant for so long. If you are a coach or just a running fan you are going to enjoy this episode. 


1:34 How did you become so interested in high school cross country?

3:40 You have been around the high school distance scene for decades, how has it changed?

5:54 What about the coaching and training side, how has that changed?

7:28 What are some of the common factors for the teams that are successful year after year?

10:03 Can you give us a quick overview of Nike and the role FM has played in that?

13:04 What gives FM the success they are having?

19:09 What are some of the go-to books that have influenced Bill Aris?

25:04 What I took from the belief system is the team leaders became the driving force to push the team

28:50 The hallmark of their program is the tight compression of the team. But often early in the season it is that is not there and it gets better by the end of the season, so what is happening to 3-5 to get such a tight compression?

33:06 You say it is not about the X's and O's, but in the book, they go hard and go hard often

37:58 The race was secondary, a by-product. Training was where culture changed. The race was like a degree after years of study. That’s why Mackenzie Carter would get upset when a teammate didn’t understand the “gravity” of a workout. “How they’d trained,” said John Aris, “exceeded any difficulty they would find in the race.”  This effort seemed to be done every time they laced up the shoes together.

43:29 After 2013 they come back and boys and girls win in 2014

47:23 They talk a lot about 1-7, but what about 8-20 are they going through the same things?

50:19 There is criticism that the kids don't have success at the next level, how much of that is just the college experience of team is different?

55:36 There is a perception that Bill Aris is stand-offish and is not involved in the community, so how hard was it get this book done?

1:00:01 If there is high school coach trying to implement this, I think it is going to be impossible unless it is who you are, this is who Bill Aris is

1:04:15 How much longer do you think Bill will be doing this?

Amazing Racers


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